Big Block Edelbrock limitations.

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AndyF said:
Typical guy bolting parts on an engine in his garage will end up with around 400 hp from a rebuilt 440 with Edelbrock heads. That might not sound like a lot but it is enough to push your car harder than it was designed to go. Early B body cars are dangerous with that level of power unless you've updated the suspension and brakes.
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Thank you for a clear, concise answer. 600 hp sounded a bit much to me. Considering my cars performance, I feel I'm at the limits of the engine combo. I know it needs a better converter. Yes, the brakes, front and rear, suspension have all been upgraded.
 
He really didn’t give enough info to even start in the first post other than saying they were out of the box heads. Lighter cars than yours but Thumper that rebuild carbs has gone 9.80’s with a ported set. A friend of mine in Pa has gone high 8’s in the 1/4 with his ported Edelbrock in a lightened Duster. It all comes down to the right package and how much you want to spend.
 
furyus2 said:
While I appreciate all the replies, I think some are going off the rails. I already mentioned that the converter isn't right. Nor did it have anything to do with the original question.
Also, anyone can see this isn't a full time race car. That isn't the original question either.
So, I simply wanted to know how much horsepower a set of stock rpm heads & intake can support/produce. I do realize that everything else contributes to horsepower,
That way I can think about what I would do on the bottom end. The engine is tired. I built it 20 years ago. It will need going through. So, if I have to go through the bottom end, I want to know where I stand powerwise on the heads/intake. The questions about stroke, bore, compression ratio, cam, etc. are for later.
The only one who gave any answer to the question id IQ52.
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Actually no he is not. I gave you a legitimate answer first. You can go look at the flow numbers and get a good guesstimate of the HP level they will support. That is exactly why I pointed you to the flow numbers......because of all of the directions this thread had gone. Just because my answer required you to do a little work doesn't meant it was not an answer.
 
pittsburghracer said:
He really didn’t give enough info to even start in the first post other than saying they were out of the box heads. Lighter cars than yours but Thumper that rebuild carbs has gone 9.80’s with a ported set. A friend of mine in Pa has gone high 8’s in the 1/4 with his ported Edelbrock in a lightened Duster. It all comes down to the right package and how much you want to spend.
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Well, I was trying to keep it as on point as possible. It's already veered off to converters, compression, etc. I do understand it's the whole package. So, if the untouched heads are good from 450- 500 hp (with my ok engine building skills), since I already own them, would I be better off both power, and financially, buying a different set of heads,say the TFS240, or having mine ported if I wanted to step it up to 550-575hp? For discussion sake, let's just assume there is no car yet. Just an engine I'm trying to plan out. According to the Wallace calculator, I'm only at about 400hp now.
 
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You already HAVE the Edelbrocks. I think it would be more cost effective to run them, even if you need them ported to reach the power level you want. That is, unless your head porter likes anal sex.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Actually no he is not. I gave you a legitimate answer first. You can go look at the flow numbers and get a good guesstimate of the HP level they will support. That is exactly why I pointed you to the flow numbers......because of all of the directions this thread had gone. Just because my answer required you to do a little work doesn't meant it was not an answer.
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You are right. I apologize. I looked at the flow on their website, and used one of the Wallace calculators, and although I am not sure of the VE, I took a guess, and it seems like the heads may not be my issue. Is there a standard value (or something close)for the VE of a street style engine?
 
RustyRatRod said:
You already HAVE the Edelbrocks. I think it would be more cost effective to run them, even if you need them ported to reach the power level you want. That is, unless your head porter likes anal sex.
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I don't have a head porter, but from what I've heard, when it comes to price, they love anal.
 
furyus2 said:
You are right. I apologize. I looked at the flow on their website, and used one of the Wallace calculators, and although I am not sure of the VE, I took a guess, and it seems like the heads may not be my issue. Is there a standard value (or something close)for the VE of a street style engine?
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I usually use 80%, which is probably a little conservative, but I would rather be conservative than over shoot it.
 
furyus2 said:
I don't have a head porter, but from what I've heard, when it comes to price, they love anal.
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Some do. We have a local one to me that's very reasonable. He's a retired aircraft mechanic and runs a porting service out of his home.

I see you're in Florida. He is in Warner Robins, Georgia.

http://killiansportingservice.com/

It would be worth your ride. You should call him.
 
Thanks again. The website says 291 cfm at 600 lift. Wallace says my engine is producing 212 cfm now using the 80%. Is it a safe assumption that I have a ways to go with my stock heads before they become an issue?
 
furyus2 said:
Thanks again. The website says 291 cfm at 600 lift. Wallace says my engine is producing 212 cfm now using the 80%. Is it a safe assumption that I have a ways to go with my stock heads before they become an issue?
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Lets see what the boys have to say about my 80% figure. I might not even be in the ballpark.
 
From Hughes site, BB 84cc rpm's flow [email protected]" (your cam lift) or at least the head they tested showed that. If that is somewhere close to what you have that should be enough for 450>480hp@around a true 10:1CR with a good sealing short block/tune and good enough induction.. They go on to flow [email protected] and then fall back to [email protected]. to raise things to 500hp+ is poss with those heads but you would need more cam/carb/compression than you currently have.
 
Hot Metal said:
From Hughes site, BB 84cc rpm's flow [email protected]" (your cam lift) or at least the head they tested showed that. If that is somewhere close to what you have that should be enough for 450>480hp@around a true 10:1CR with a good sealing short block/tune and good enough induction.. They go on to flow [email protected] and then fall back to [email protected]. to raise things to 500hp+ is poss with those heads but you would need more cam/carb/compression than you currently have.
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Thanks for that. It gives me plenty to think about.
 
I think it all comes down to the right combo, with your current heads, you could make plenty of power, are you trying to reach a specific number for racing for an specific ET?
 
If the real goal is 550-575hp, from a docile, streetable, relatively low maintenance, pump gas 440....... it will be easier to get there with TF240’s.
And if you got a fair price for your used RPM’s....... probably cheaper in the long run.

Could you get to that power level with unported RPM’s?
Sure..... with more compression and a bigger cam than what you may find is enjoyable in a street car.

10:1 446 with RPM heads, smallish solid cam, SD, 850DP, headers,....... with proper machine work........that’s an honest 500hp build(made 500hp on the dyno).
I built that exact combo in 2005, it went in a 3900lb 71 Charger R/T with a 10” converter and 4.10’s.......... ran 11.70’s.

For 550-575hp, swap to the TF heads, go up a little bit on the cam, 10.5-10.75cr...... should put you right where you want to be.

The most I have seen personally out of BBM RPM heads was 665hp.
That was a basic bracket race, high CR 493, with an easy on parts roller cam, heads ported to flow 300.
 
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If you really want a great recipe for a 440 with your wanted power level, you need to find a copy of "Old Reliable" by Don Dulmage. That is a bonafide, step by step, old school recipe for exactly the power level you're seeking. It's getting hard to find now, though.
 
Here's some info on the book.

Old Reliable: Building 440 Mopar Race Motor

I actually have a copy of it that was very generously given to me by a very nice forum member years ago. They are so difficult to find now though, I want to hold onto it. Lots of great tips in the book for building an extremely reliable 440 right in your power range and on the cheap with lots of old school mods........he didn't even use aluminum heads, so you already have a leg up. That book would be a big help, IMO, if you can find a copy.

In fact, here is Don's web site with his email address. Maybe you could get a copy straight from him.

DOn DulmaGE
 
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ValiantRacing said:
I think it all comes down to the right combo, with your current heads, you could make plenty of power, are you trying to reach a specific number for racing for an specific ET?
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Thank you. Not trying to build to anything specific. It's a mostly street car that I would like to get to mid 11s. The thought is that if I'm going to go through the engine, it should be better/faster than it is.
 
furyus2 said:
Thank you. Not trying to build to anything specific. It's a mostly street car that I would like to get to mid 11s. The thought is that if I'm going to go through the engine, it should be better/faster than it is.
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Mid 11s is RIGHT where Don Dulmage was.........in his 74 Charger that weighed 4150 pounds. That's the kind of power he shows you how to get in that book.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Here's some info on the book.

Old Reliable: Building 440 Mopar Race Motor

I actually have a copy of it that was very generously given to my by a very nice forum member years ago. They are so difficult to find now though, I want to hold onto it. Lots of great tips in the book for building an extremely reliable 440 right in your power range and on the cheap with lots of old school mods........he didn't even use aluminum heads, so you already have a leg up. That book would be a big help, IMO, if you can find a copy.

In fact, here is Don's web site with his email address. Maybe you could get a copy straight from him.

DOn DulmaGE
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I'm going to start looking for that book. Thanks again.
 
Use the block, heads and intake but ditch the spinning assembly and build a stroker.
-440 Source
 
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