Header upgrade

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gumper said:
Obviously it would be nice to have actual numbers on 1 5/8 vs 1 7/8 headers. 20 or more is enough for me to say it’s worth the money. Trying to squeeze out every tenth I can.
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Google?? I'd be surprised if there weren't an Engine Masters episode or magazine article on the topic doing a back to back. Might be on a chebbie or Furd though. I know that I've read something in the distant past. With your engine combo I would be surprised if you wouldn't pick up 10-15hp. A milder car probably won't benefit and I think might lose on the low end.
 
70aarcuda said:
on your coil over conversion....what are you using?
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Was looking at the Hemi Denny setup. My lower control arm is bent from a tie rod breaking many years ago. Figured now is a good time to upgrade things and possibly save some weight.
 
Marcohotrod said:
have used many headers over the years, 1.625" - Hedman and Eagle, 5204 Hooker 1.750", 5303 Hooker 1.875". witnessed many dyno tests, trying different headers-no big deal. Have a friend with a wheelstanding big block- he say the headers got smashed and she did not slow down from 9.5 secs. how about the dyno testing Dave and Steves did smashing headers-no big loss.

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That’s my favorite header right there. That’s on the car now.
 
j par said:
Just as long as you're aware of why this statement doesn't bode well for you...lol...
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LOL...that went over my head. I’m old, (an old 39 but still 39) and my arse is dragging from trying to fit a big shifter into a small hole. So clue me in on how that doesn’t bode well for me.

TIA
 
gumper said:
Was looking at the Hemi Denny setup. My lower control arm is bent from a tie rod breaking many years ago. Figured now is a good time to upgrade things and possibly save some weight.
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Just be aware...they do not provide for much front end travel....
 
70aarcuda said:
Just be aware...they do not provide for much front end travel....
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Interesting. Any other suggestions? I think right now I have the minimum travel recommended by Calvert. I didn’t want to change my K member since the weight savings didn’t seem worth it for the cost.
 
yellow rose said:
LOL...that went over my head. I’m old, (an old 39 but still 39) and my arse is dragging from trying to fit a big shifter into a small hole. So clue me in on how that doesn’t bode well for me.

TIA
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if you recall my working theory before I actually seen you in physical person with having so much "hot rod" knowledge was that you are actually a 13 year old girl with a stack of her father's hot rod...
 
j par said:
if you recall my working theory before I actually seen you in physical person with having so much "hot rod" knowledge was that you are actually a 13 year old girl with a stack of her father's hot rod...
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LOL. Got it. Told you I was a little slow today. I should have remembered that.
 
Talk to Hemidenny,,,,,I believe you will only get about 3 inches of front end travel.....if you are using the stock lower A arm pivots....

i removed the coil over from the front end...put the old 6 cylinder bars and 90/10 shocks....Car pick up tires like it used too before the coil overs..
but I dont know what i am doing...just an old bracket racer...
 
yellow rose said:
I’ve had markedly different results. I’ll post results and video of my dyno testing, if we actually get past this flu crap before July. I’ve tested it enough that I’m confident in what will happen. Done it on GM and Ford too.
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He is talking about the summit 1 5/8 vs the tti 1 5/8 step headers I believe and you know step headers aint all that.
 
IQ52 said:
I tested the (now) $180 1-5/8" Summit headers vs the TTI stepped headers a few year back. On a 600 HP 424"/360 there was a 1 HP average gain from 3,000-6,000 rpm with the TTI and a 11 HP peak gain at 6,400. Not worth the extra $500 in my book.
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I am assuming the 1 5/8 ttis correct?
 
if talking about tti step headers - we need 1 or 2 more outer diameters than just 1 5/8" . and the good old Hooker 5303 race headers in my pic-1.875" long tubes with 3 " slip on collectors, 1967-75 A body, underchassis, fit nice, last time Summit had a $800. Is Tubular Automotive still active in Mass? T.A. headers were sold thru Ed Hamburger.

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Marcohotrod said:
if talking about tti step headers - we need 1 or 2 more outer diameters than just 1 5/8" . and the good old Hooker 5303 race headers in my pic-1.875" long tubes with 3 " slip on collectors, 1967-75 A body, underchassis, fit nice, last time Summit had a $800. Is Tubular Automotive still active in Mass? T.A. headers were sold thru Ed Hamburger.

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Because I run mufflers, I swapped out the 3 inch collectors for 3.5 but those headers fit. They go on only one way, and I have the directions. If you don’t do it by the instructions, it takes 10 times longer to get them on. Maybe I should test the 3 inch collectors when I’m on the dyno.
 
yellow rose said:
Because I run mufflers, I swapped out the 3 inch collectors for 3.5 but those headers fit. They go on only one way, and I have the directions. If you don’t do it by the instructions, it takes 10 times longer to get them on. Maybe I should test the 3 inch collectors when I’m on the dyno.
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If you can let me know when you head to the dyno, I may need a couple of measurements. Nobody I know of makes headers bigger than 1.625 for my sweptline. Looks like I will have lots of room though.
 
Mopar Sam said:
If you can let me know when you head to the dyno, I may need a couple of measurements. Nobody I know of makes headers bigger than 1.625 for my sweptline. Looks like I will have lots of room though.
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I will. I did and engine for a guy in 2000, maybe 2001...the years are starting to run together. Anyhoo...he wanted a 408 and it went into a truck. We couldn’t find headers, so I found a guy who would build them for 850 bucks (BTDT...no way in hell was I building another set) and when the engine was on the pump, the first thing the shop owner said was, you headers are too big, that intake won’t make any torque and your ignition sucks. In the end, it made 545 HP and my ignition was 15 HP better than his hopped up MSD box. In fact, he said the engine wouldn’t make 450 HP, and I said if that’s the case, I’m taking a sledge hammer to it. He was off by almost 100 HP. The sad thing is I didn’t have another set of headers there to test, and we broke several rockers, because the B3 system wasn’t out there (that I know of at that time) and the customer didn’t want to use offset stands and shafts.

It had a flat torque curve, made max power at 5000 and held on to 5400 with the wrong intake (a Strip Dominator) headsrs that were too big and and a “junk” ignition. I used a Cam Motion hydraulic roller and the following Monday I sent the dyno sheets to Danny at CM and he called me back in 10 minutes and wanted to go back to the dyno and use solid rollers on that cam. He figured an easy 20 HP with just the solid rollers. He also wanted to send out a different cam that would make power at 6000 because he felt we could tickle 600 HP with more cam and a bit more RPM. The customer ended up being a lying crook and a pussy. He didn’t want any more power, so it never happened.
 
gumper said:
Thinking of upgrading my 1 5/8 Hooker Competition headers while my engine is pulled. Curious if there would be a significant power increase by using a larger primary tube setup. This is what I have:
408, around 11.6:1
Ported Performer RPM heads
65cc chambers, 270/232 @.500, 280/240 @.600
Solid cam, 250/254 @.050, 588/600 lift, .010/.012 lash
Rons toilet injection on alcohol
Timing set at 35*
Manual VB 727 with ~4800 stall 8” converter
4.30 gears, 28x10.50 tire
Weighs 3250 with driver

It had a Mopar purple .557, [email protected], .028/.032 lash solid cam that I am replacing with the new one listed above. The old cam was running at 4* retarded. Hopefully the new one works better. Best the car ever ran was 11.01@119 in Seattle. We mainly race at a 1/8 mile track with a 5300’ elevation running 7.20-7.30. Want to run 7.0-7.10.

Like I said it has 1 5/8 hookers into 3” collectors connected to a 3” x-pipe dumping in front of the axle. Was looking at TTI stepped headers, or their 1 7/8. Using a manual steering box, and not using the factory shift linkage. Also looking at ditching the torsion bars for coil overs. Don’t want to cut out the inner fenders.
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gumper said:
Thinking of upgrading my 1 5/8 Hooker Competition headers while my engine is pulled. Curious if there would be a significant power increase by using a larger primary tube setup. This is what I have:
408, around 11.6:1
Ported Performer RPM heads
65cc chambers, 270/232 @.500, 280/240 @.600
Solid cam, 250/254 @.050, 588/600 lift, .010/.012 lash
Rons toilet injection on alcohol
Timing set at 35*
Manual VB 727 with ~4800 stall 8” converter
4.30 gears, 28x10.50 tire
Weighs 3250 with driver

It had a Mopar purple .557, [email protected], .028/.032 lash solid cam that I am replacing with the new one listed above. The old cam was running at 4* retarded. Hopefully the new one works better. Best the car ever ran was 11.01@119 in Seattle. We mainly race at a 1/8 mile track with a 5300’ elevation running 7.20-7.30. Want to run 7.0-7.10.

Like I said it has 1 5/8 hookers into 3” collectors connected to a 3” x-pipe dumping in front of the axle. Was looking at TTI stepped headers, or their 1 7/8. Using a manual steering box, and not using the factory shift linkage. Also looking at ditching the torsion bars for coil overs. Don’t want to cut out the inner fenders.
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You don't have to cut out the inner fenders just one hole on each side with the hedman 75140.My 416 is very similar to yours and I went from running 10.60 with the 1 3/4"×3" hooker 5204 to 10.29 with the hedmans.Well worth the cost for me.You would need to weld on collector flanges if running mufflers.

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MHEAD said:
You don't have to cut out the inner fenders just one hole on each side with the hedman 75140.My 416 is very similar to yours and I went from running 10.60 with the 1 3/4"×3" hooker 5204 to 10.29 with the hedmans.Well worth the cost for me.You would need to weld on collector flanges if running mufflers.

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That’s also a great header if you don't mind the small hole in the fender well. I just didn’t want to do it, and lucked into a set of 5303’s.

Quick math says that’s about a 50ish HP gain. And that’s over a very good 1.750 header.
 
yellow rose said:
That’s also a great header if you don't mind the small hole in the fender well. I just didn’t want to do it, and lucked into a set of 5303’s.

Quick math says that’s about a 50ish HP gain. And that’s over a very good 1.750 header.
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I really didn't want to drill a hole either but now have no regrets.The car sounded better as soon as I started it.Its amazing what a great header can do.Its probably because I sent them to jet hot lol.
 
yellow rose said:
That’s also a great header if you don't mind the small hole in the fender well. I just didn’t want to do it, and lucked into a set of 5303’s.

Quick math says that’s about a 50ish HP gain. And that’s over a very good 1.750 header.
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I guess since you’re good with power numbers, do you think the new cam with the bigger headers would be worth at least .25 in the 1/8 mile? Also freshening up the engine. Still have to decide if it needs new pistons, but at least it will have some total seal rings. The engine was setup to run 250 hp worth of nitrous when it was assembled 13-14 years ago, so the rings were gapped a bit wide back then. That’s no longer the case.
 
Since no one knows, I gave up on trying to find some headers. Still using the junk 1 5/8 Hookers. I would call TTI once a month, and they’d tell me “8 weeks” until they had some in stock.
 
gumper said:
Obviously it would be nice to have actual numbers on 1 5/8 vs 1 7/8 headers. 20 or more is enough for me to say it’s worth the money. Trying to squeeze out every tenth I can.
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I may have already replied to this but I don't think you're going to see 20 horsepower going from a header to a slightly bigger header. Especially with 3" exh already, i look else where.
 
Mopar Sam said:
If you can let me know when you head to the dyno, I may need a couple of measurements. Nobody I know of makes headers bigger than 1.625 for my sweptline. Looks like I will have lots of room though.
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It's been a year do you think he's made it to the dyno yet... BAHAHAHA...
 
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