W2 408 Dyno results today !

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mbaird said:
Shouldnt be ... this is a custom grind ordered by Ryan when he ported the heads .
I do realize this is a comprimise cam .
I wanted a hot driver . If this was a pure race car peak numbers would be higher. That being said I believe there is another 40-50 horses that can be squeezed out of it. But I can live with a meager 492 hp for now .
Should work well with 3.55s
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The power is great, its just less than it should be. If there was a correct way to inform someone they left power behind..I haven't heard it..so just dont take my words as being down on the build or power output...I just think you should be near 530-540hp with that cam lift and head. Somethings off. I wouldnt choose that cam...but I'd like to see the flow sheet.
 
I have less head , less cam, less spring, less header, less intake manifold.... and it pulls to 7200 and keeps pulling.

I'd like to see where the heads really start breathing and plane out. It would be something else of you knocked .075 lift and 100 lbs of spring off the combo to see how it reacts...and the intake manifold, probably is the wrong choice for that cam. I run a dual plane to about [email protected] move to single planes with a lot of 'street motors'.
 
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512Stroker said:
Those cam numbers look very healthy to me.
It could be a valve opening /closing timing issue making the power fall off.
Cam timing to far advanced @ +4* ?
What do the cranking speed cylinder pressures look like?
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Surely something to look at. :thumbsup:
 
mbaird said:
I was hoping for around 550 hp but could only muster 493 .
Torque was good running 428 ft-lbs by 3800 and 482@ 4700 !
Power dropped off abruptly at 6200 which surprised me for W2 heads.
View attachment 1715816539
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IMO…. The lack of power you were looking for has been mentioned with the wrong intake, but a dual plane for a W2 isn’t an easy thing to find and the MP unit… is questionable for this application. Considering it is a aluminum copy of the older stock units.

I also think the cam duration is a bit small for a single plane. Also as you said it is a compromise cam. The few hundred missing rpm up top like J Robb was saying. I also wonder about what MP Official thoughts on head flow. Valve springs came to my mind as well.

All in all, I don’t see this as a bad deal. I think it did what it was supposed to do.

Quick question… you might have previously stated the answer to… Are the dyno headers the same diameter as the car headers?

Edit …. Has anyone fitted a RPM to a W2 head?
 
It’s unfortunate the air turbine wasn’t being used for the testing.
It’s a great tool for helping to find valvetrain stability issues.
My experience has been, that when the power makes a fairly sudden drop...... like in one line...... it’s often a valvetrain stability problem.
When in doubt...... try and go a few rpm higher....... especially when the top of the run is at a pretty modest rpm anyway.

I’d like to see the fuel flow numbers myself......... the bsfc numbers are fairly poor(how efficiently the motor is using the fuel).
 
The dyno headers looked steep. I wondered about sizing
 
419 with RPM heads, Victor, 1050 carb, 1-7/8” headers, roller cam, 11.5cr:

B740C1B0-E6FA-4FAC-B8AF-2C0B9A394F85.jpeg
 
Rat Bastid said:
I thought he said 1 7/8 TTI headers.
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I'll have to re read,I though it was with 1 7/8 on the dyno. Whether his or theirs, if both @ 1 7/8...I wouldn't expect it to make a giant diff aside from collector size and length..but that's just what I'm thinking...and not end all.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
I have less head , less cam, less spring, less header, less intake manifold.... and it pulls to 7200 and keeps pulling.

I'd like to see where the heads really start breathing and plane out. It would be something else of you knocked .075 lift and 100 lbs of spring off the combo to see how it reacts...and the intake manifold, probably is the wrong choice for that cam. I run a dual plane to about [email protected] move to single planes with a lot of 'street motors'.
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I assume his intake is an ootb Victor, what do you think a ballpark flow or HP increase would be if it were worked over, and running his 1-7/8” TTI’s vs. the W2 dyno headers? From what I was told by Mike Jones when I was requesting a cam (with mine also being a stroker but w/TF 190’s) with a peak hp rpm target of 6200 running a dual plane I got similar split pattern specs to the cam the op is using (only a little less lift) but when I bumped up the rpm to 6400 and with a single plane he spec’d a single pattern of [email protected]” Seems the cam is matched spec wise just some other things could be better optimized, and as he says there is more in it.
 
I’ll give a few more specs later.
For some reason I can only get about 1/3 of the way through a reply, and the page stops responding.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
I'll have to re read,I though it was with 1 7/8 on the dyno. Whether his or theirs, if both @ 1 7/8...I wouldn't expect it to make a giant diff aside from collector size and length..but that's just what I'm thinking...and not end all.
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Yeah, I can’t remember what he said. But the BSFC numbers get pretty high and that could be the headers pulling air and fuel right out of the chamber and into the exhaust. Or it could be something else.
 
I did not run my headers. I meant to but forgot to grab them . They are 1 7/8 TTI with 3.5 collectors ... the dyno headers are 1 7/8 to 2" step .

The engine seemed to like to run fat .
I would have liked to see a little higher
afr numbers 12.9-13.5ish but Frank felt the engine was happier being on the rich side.
I didnt run the TR because it was getting late and I was getting tired .
I will try it later on a chassis dyno .
 
Rat Bastid said:
Yeah, I can’t remember what he said. But the BSFC numbers get pretty high and that could be the headers pulling air and fuel right out of the chamber and into the exhaust. Or it could be something else.
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Cam
 
12many said:
I assume his intake is an ootb Victor, what do you think a ballpark flow or HP increase would be if it were worked over, and running his 1-7/8” TTI’s vs. the W2 dyno headers? From what I was told by Mike Jones when I was requesting a cam (with mine also being a stroker but w/TF 190’s) with a peak hp rpm target of 6200 running a dual plane I got similar specs to the cam the op is using (only a little less lift) but when I bumped up the rpm to 6400 and with a single plane he spec’d a single pattern of [email protected]” Seems the cam is matched spec wise just some other things could be better optimized, and as he says there is more in it.
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I would agree with Mike's changing it to a single pattern and at the threshold to switch. I spoke with Mike about 18 years ago on speed talk or whatever the site is. I have not been on in years and forgot my password but he wanted to hemi split a cam for me 'More int than exh' and in the 240's... cant remember how narrow it was.
At the time it was 410cid, dual, 1 5/8 headers ... I think it was like 560's & 520 exh 104 or something... I went somewhere else and was happy in the end..not to say it was a dud..I never tried it.

His cam @050 is on the small side imo. It should have a dual plane with that cam, ignore the lift. Probably would crack 500 ft lbs then...and at 6200 wouldnt even be done yet. I turn my port matched plenum corrected ld340 up 7200 rpm with 410cid.
I agree something is off...
So as the conversation goes on.. are we focusing on what's ideal for the cam.. Or the heads and induction.
Simply put.. focus on making the existing better or building around the heads and change intake,cam, maybe headers.
 
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