Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
cudamike13, do you remember "MAX" in Rockmart, Ga. ? He had all the answers for Mopars.
360 hydraulic lifter failure
- Thread starter Uncle Bob
- Start date
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Sorry no, I do not.
Use to buy parts (Mopar) from Lawrence Roundtree south of Atl. He was a racer.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
I've got Edelbrock heads, so no such luck. I definitely want to fix it once and be done because intake gaskets and silicon for the china wall don't come cheap.
I don't think so. I ran a burnishing ball through all of them and it wasn't loose in any of the bores.
Plus, the lifter won't pump up on the bench either so I feel safe in saying there's something wrong with that lifter.
I went around pressed the pushrods and counted 5, maybe 6 lifters that have bled off at least a little. I may disassemble those in hope of a good cleaning putting them in working order to save some broken-in lifters. If not, I'll test the new lifters on the bench and replace the lifters that leaked off with known good ones.
UPS tracking shows the parts arriving today but it also says they're still at the nearest depot to Summit's warehouse 4 hours away. So I'm pretty skeptical. LOL Heck I didn't even know UPS ran on Saturday.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
I cleaned the daylights out of 5 collapsed/collapsing lifters; the other 11 were rock solid and I'm old and tired so I left them alone, at least for now. It had been about a week since I primed the engine.
Then I put the pushrods/rockers back in place, primed it, and walked away. I'll check them again first thing the next time I go to the garage.
Then I put the pushrods/rockers back in place, primed it, and walked away. I'll check them again first thing the next time I go to the garage.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
I tried two before I gave up. I had a recommendation to use light oil but I don't want that going into the engine. So I just used the priming stick.
I remember pumping the full set solid when I did a cam change back in my high school days. It was so long ago they were still putting coffee in steel cans so I had no problem finding one to do it with.
Luck would be good.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
Of the 5 lifters I cleaned, three have collapsed and the other have leaked off a little.
One that I didn't notice yesterday seems like it bled off - I don't really see movement but I can hear a click so it's moving whether I can see it or not.
I'm giving it all the time in the world to show me which lifters are bad. I won't have replacements until Monday at the earliest, then I get to disassemble and clean those, so if I'm lucky it's going to be Wednesday before I get back to reassembling things. TBH it could go to next weekend. To do the best I can about finding the bad ones, I'll just leave them as is until I'm ready to install the new parts.
Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
I hear a lot here about cleaning the lifters. Not one person mentioned, make sure you place them back on the same cam lob that they came from. A new lifter does not matter which lob to be placed on. I made a lifter tray (a top and bottom, to seal the dust or dirt out) out of a 2x4 years ago for that reason, to get them on the correct lob.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
Do them one at a time and you can't go wrong.
PRH
Well-Known Member
Hyd lifters are not designed to be “solid”.
Page 7-
http://toplineauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Lifter-Application-Catalog.pdf
Notice the bleed down rates are rated in “seconds”.
From the FAQ section of the Gaterman site:
Can the lifters be noisy on startup after the engine has been sitting for a while?
Yes, they definitely can. When the engine is shut off, some of the lifters may not be on the cam base circles, but may instead be on the lift portion of the lobes. If that happens, the lifter is under constant load from the valve spring holding the valve open. Eventually, the force will bleed the oil out of the lifter, resulting in clearance during the next engine re-start. The engine will clatter momentarily until the lifter refills with oil to take up the clearance. High ratio rocker arms, strong valve springs, and high lift cam lobes all contribute to this situation. In reality, the lifter wouldn't function without its ability to bleed down under load. So, there's no way to completely avoid it.
Page 7-
http://toplineauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Lifter-Application-Catalog.pdf
Notice the bleed down rates are rated in “seconds”.
From the FAQ section of the Gaterman site:
Can the lifters be noisy on startup after the engine has been sitting for a while?
Yes, they definitely can. When the engine is shut off, some of the lifters may not be on the cam base circles, but may instead be on the lift portion of the lobes. If that happens, the lifter is under constant load from the valve spring holding the valve open. Eventually, the force will bleed the oil out of the lifter, resulting in clearance during the next engine re-start. The engine will clatter momentarily until the lifter refills with oil to take up the clearance. High ratio rocker arms, strong valve springs, and high lift cam lobes all contribute to this situation. In reality, the lifter wouldn't function without its ability to bleed down under load. So, there's no way to completely avoid it.
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Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
The one that bleeds off is #1 and the engine is at TDC so the quickest to go flat is on a closed valve.
PRH
Well-Known Member
The lifter is collapsing with nothing pushing on it?
That’s something I haven’t experienced.
#1@TDC, #1 firing= lifters on the base circle(no lift)
#1@TDC, #6 firing= lifters not on the base circle(some lobe lift present)
That’s something I haven’t experienced.
#1@TDC, #1 firing= lifters on the base circle(no lift)
#1@TDC, #6 firing= lifters not on the base circle(some lobe lift present)
Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
I remember back in the day we called the HI-PO lifters "anti-pop up". They are not meant to be solid, as more of a stronger cushion on the cam lobs. I'm thinking these lifters we are referring to here are of a weaker design. These may cause a "Valve float" at high RPM.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
There was one on Marketplace, they wanted a pretty penny for it too
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
Maybe preload them more, or less... and see what happens
I'd convert it over to a solid roller cam at this point. lol
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NC Engine Builder
Grumpy Old Man
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Definitely not cheap, but mines worth every penny I paid for it. I WILL NOT do a flat tappet of any sort unless the customer pays to reface the lifters.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
It couldn't have worked out better. The new set of lifters are from the same company, same part number, but they are different from the ones in the engine.
The new lifter is on the left. On that one the piece with the pushrod cup covers the top of the piston, on the other one it goes inside the piston. There are other differences inside. I didn't take photos of that because I got disgusted and just put it back together.
In that photo the new one is on the right. It's shorter so now I'm probably in need of a longer set of pushrods.
I bought the same brand of lifters trying to avoid exactly that.
Madness.
The new lifter is on the left. On that one the piece with the pushrod cup covers the top of the piston, on the other one it goes inside the piston. There are other differences inside. I didn't take photos of that because I got disgusted and just put it back together.
In that photo the new one is on the right. It's shorter so now I'm probably in need of a longer set of pushrods.
I bought the same brand of lifters trying to avoid exactly that.
Madness.
PRH
Well-Known Member
Based on the pic in post 25, what would you say the new lifters are?
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
Stanadyne.
ETA - based on the pushrod cup and the oil metering valve. I didn't take the check valve apart.
PRH
Well-Known Member
Interesting.
Stanadyne has been out of the lifter business for at least 10 years.
I wonder where the tooling ended up.
Stanadyne has been out of the lifter business for at least 10 years.
I wonder where the tooling ended up.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
Whoever it is sells lifters to Howard's.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
I might give that a try, back it off a full turn, reprime, see if it leaks off again.
If I had your money I would LOL.
Ha! Now there's a joke if ever there was.
Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
I would think you would need to factor in the cup depth. I would measure with the push rod in it.
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