Should you open your garage door if there's a fire in the garage? (looking for actual firemen to answer this)

[dukeboy440]

That's perfect.

We suggest the same to our homeowners - just pick two dates six months apart that you'll remember. A lot of times we'll suggest New Year's Day and 4th of July, but obviously any date works.

My grandfather served on a local VFD board. He always said those two dates were the worst ones. His theory was that people would get so caught up in the holidays, they'd forget to change the batteries. In my part of the world, the week of July 4th and the week between christmas and new years have the most residential fires for whatever reason

 

[67CBodyGuy]

Is it that hard for electric cars to be able to detect a fire in their battery pack? Perhaps by thermal if not particulate means? I can understand the pushback from EV makers to do this, but if it were technically possible, perhaps by using the sensors they already have, it should be mandated that they be able to detect a battery fire AND send a notification to the owner (since these cars are already fully wifi or wireless-capable and already communicate to the owner for other reasons).

Regarding smoke detectors in garages - I'm not up on all the latest options for residential / commercial / industrial fire detection, but are there not thermal IR detectors that can detect a fire (or something abnormally hot) by using optical detection (vs particulate detection I guess by radioactive-based detector with finite life span) ?

 

[Righty Tighty]

My grandfather served on a local VFD board. He always said those two dates were the worst ones. His theory was that people would get so caught up in the holidays, they'd forget to change the batteries. In my part of the world, the week of July 4th and the week between christmas and new years have the most residential fires for whatever reason

I can see that logic. The point is to try to get people to pick two dates that they'll remember - add it to their calendars or put it in their phones - whatever it takes.

And I can vouch for Christmas fires for sure. I've been on lots of fires either on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. They're almost never started near the tree, many times it's from a space heater or poorly placed candle. Kitchen fires come in at a close second. But that's just my experience.

 

[ProjectBazza]

Is it that hard for electric cars to be able to detect a fire in their battery pack? Perhaps by thermal if not particulate means? I can understand the pushback from EV makers to do this, but if it were technically possible, perhaps by using the sensors they already have, it should be mandated that they be able to detect a battery fire AND send a notification to the owner (since these cars are already fully wifi or wireless-capable and already communicate to the owner for other reasons).

Regarding smoke detectors in garages - I'm not up on all the latest options for residential / commercial / industrial fire detection, but are there not thermal IR detectors that can detect a fire (or something abnormally hot) by using optical detection (vs particulate detection I guess by radioactive-based detector with finite life span) ?

As far as I know (I service large HVAC equipment), there are two types of smoke detectors: photoelectric, and ionization, and each has their place and usage. I'm not familiar, or have never heard of an IR (thermal) detector, but if vehicle manufacturer's can't/won't put them in vehicles as a proactive measure, I wonder how useful they would be as a reactive measure in a garage space.

Interesting idea though.....

 

[dukeboy440]

As far as I know (I service large HVAC equipment), there are two types of smoke detectors: photoelectric, and ionization, and each has their place and usage. I'm not familiar, or have never heard of an IR (thermal) detector, but if vehicle manufacturer's can't/won't put them in vehicles as a proactive measure, I wonder how useful they would be as a reactive measure in a garage space.

Interesting idea though.....

they use them in Jets and aircraft and have for decades. They're just expensive

 

[ProjectBazza]

they use them in Jets and aircraft and have for decades. They're just expensive

I didn't know that, thanks!

 

[72bluNblu]

I keep reading about how lithium batteries in power tools keep causing fires while charging. Wonder if they should be stored in a fire rated cabinet?

The only possible issue I see with that is ventilation. Charging the batteries does create heat, so if you loaded a fire rated cabinet up with batteries to charge them you’d essentially turn it into an oven.

So far all the “official” recommendations are just to make sure the chargers are on a hard surface (not furniture, carpets etc), are functioning properly and check the batteries themselves- keep them clean, charging ports unblocked, that sort of thing. The other thing is using name brand products and checking to make sure they’re not counterfeit. A lot of the issues are with very cheap or knock-off batteries. But a lot of the knock off’s will fake UL approvals etc.

The stuff I’ve personally seen typically involved not doing some of those basic, common sense things. I myself don’t leave them unattended on a charger. Like I’ll charge stuff when I’m working out in the shop or around the house, but I don’t leave anything on overnight or if I’m leaving.

That's perfect.

We suggest the same to our homeowners - just pick two dates six months apart that you'll remember. A lot of times we'll suggest New Year's Day and 4th of July, but obviously any date works.

A lot of the homeowner stuff now comes with a 10 year non-serviceable battery. That’s about all the ionization sensors are good for time wise anyway.

 

[Righty Tighty]

Most of all the homeowner stuff now comes with a 10 year non-serviceable battery. That’s about all the ionization sensors are good for time wise anyway.

True, but we get called daily to change smoke detector batteries on units that are older and still within their serviceable life (10 years). We always check the manufacture date of the unit, and advise homeowners of that date. It's obviously becoming less common, but it happens every single day.

 

[72bluNblu]

True, but we get called daily to change smoke detector batteries on units that are older and still within their serviceable life (10 years). We always check the manufacture date of the unit, and advise homeowners of that date. It's obviously becoming less common, but it happens every single day.

Oh for sure, we get plenty of calls for the same thing. Used to be we’d change a lot of batteries, now they’re mostly just “end of service life”

 

[jos51700]

I'd rather they get in there and fight the fire than wait for it starve for air, which it ain't gonna do.

What will happen if they leave the door closed? They'll wait for it to burn through the roof and THEN try to put it out. If the roof is gone, shut off the water and go home. There ain't no salvaging that.

Edited, I guess the discussion is more about leaving it closed before Firemarshall Bill shows up. It'll be open and I'll be dragging out what I can.

Actually, no, if there's a fire at my house, I'm going to be in the next county. You know how much gunpowder is in there?

 

[Righty Tighty]

The reason for leaving the garage door shut is to LIMIT the growth of the fire during the time the fire department is responding. Then, when they get there, they (we) open it up and put the fire out. Waiting for the fire to burn through the roof and then attacking it is not a strategy I've ever heard of.

 

[Righty Tighty]

You know how much gunpowder is in there?

For sure. We hear rounds popping off all the time in a fire.

I can't say I'd blame anyone for trying to save their valuables, I'd probably do the same thing. Dogs first, then cars, then everything else. That's assuming I'd already done everything I could do to get the fire out.

People should be aware though, that the fire would have all the oxygen it wants and needs to grow in that scenario. Just need to weigh the pros and cons, I s'pose.

 

[Mopar head]

All you rich guys just have a sprinkler system installed in home and garage

 

[72bluNblu]

I'd rather they get in there and fight the fire than wait for it starve for air, which it ain't gonna do.

"Oxygen limited" or "ventilation limited" is a phase of fire that happens all the time. Leaving the door open guarantees the garage will fully involved in minutes, often faster than the response time of the fire department.

Again, this is literally something I've seen firsthand on many occasions. Fires can literally burn themselves out in rooms where all the doors and windows are closed. This is obviously dependent on a lot of different factors, but it really does happen and it's not rare. And even if the fire doesn't burn out, as soon as the oxygen level starts to drop the progression of the fire is slowed. That can happen within minutes in a closed room (again, faster than most departments can arrive).

What will happen if they leave the door closed? They'll wait for it to burn through the roof and THEN try to put it out. If the roof is gone, shut off the water and go home. There ain't no salvaging that.

Nonsense.

As I mentioned earlier, any capable firefighters can be through your residential garage door in under minute or two at the most. In areas with professional departments that can put several units on scene quickly the door is often taken down while other firefighters are deploying the hose, so water is applied simultaneously with the opening of the door. You're not waiting on one firefighter to force the door and then go back and deploy the hose and get ready to fight the fire, it all happens at the same time. Also, garage doors frequently fail under heat conditions well before the fire goes through the roof, especially in a finished (sheetrocked) garage. Garage door tracks warp easily with exposure to heat and then the door panels can be pulled down with just a hook. And there are other methods to use in the case of small fires that don't even require serious damage to the door, but again, I'm not going to describe all of them here because they can be used to enter peoples garages.

No one with even the most basic training waits for it go through the roof to start fighting fire.

Edited, I guess the discussion is more about leaving it closed before Firemarshall Bill shows up. It'll be open and I'll be dragging out what I can.

Ain't nothing in my garage worth dying for. If it's big enough you can't put it out, don't go back in, period. Plenty of people die going back into fires after they've already been out. If you wouldn't trade your life for it, stay out. Smoke kills people well before the fire has progressed to the point where the heat will keep you from going in.

 

[jos51700]

For sure. We hear rounds popping off all the time in a fire.

I can't say I'd blame anyone for trying to save their valuables, I'd probably do the same thing. Dogs first, then cars, then everything else. That's assuming I'd already done everything I could do to get the fire out.

People should be aware though, that the fire would have all the oxygen it wants and needs to grow in that scenario. Just need to weigh the pros and cons, I s'pose.

I legit don't keep rounds chambered in most guns just so they're not going off if there's a fire. Rounds in the open are much much safer.

 

[dadsbee]

If the doors are all closed, nobody is here to help throw everything into neutral before we pop 5 doors to shove them out, I'll just let Hagerty write me the cheque for $800k ! Them's the facts...