Engine Install Problem!

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mullinax95

mullinax95

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I can't get the engine to go all the away against the transmission. I have floor jack under the transmission, the engine is still hooked to the lift and have a hoist adjustment to raise the motor (don't really know what you call it but it's the blue thing in th picture).

I have tried everything far as letting the jack down and up also lifting the motor up with the motor lift and adjusting the hoist thing to level the motor or unleveled the motor. It just will not slide all the way on the transmission (4-speed) I get to the point of almost sliding on the splines of the transmission but that's about it. It likes just a little bit to get meshed up together. I tried installing some bolts to try to pull it together but it feels like it gets it in a bind. It's like the transmission shaft is to long hitting the crank therefore not letting it go all the way in to bolt it up.

I installed a new pilot bushing,throw out bearing, clutch, fly wheel resurfaced. My friend and I gave up tonight because we were both tired.

Any suggestions?? Something I'm over looking?

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Pull that rascal back out and slide it all together on the floor first. You might have mushroomed your pilot bearing going in. I`d check to see if it is and chamfer the edge if you must. It`s so much easier to put it all together first on the outside though.
 
did you use every blanket and towel in the house???? what are you going to sllep on??? ditto the taking it back out part. put the tranny and motor/bellhousing together on the outside. leave them together.

jack the *** end of the car up as high as you can get it, put the axle on stands. now you have less of and angle to drop the combo into the engine bay. once its close enough, place a jack under the tranny(tailshaft or body) and slowly bring it up so it doesn't hit the floor.
 
Sounds like your clutch plate splines are not aligning. Are you using a pilot shaft tool? If not, get one. It's almost impossible to line them up withou one. (trust me on this one!) Also, with the tranny in neutral, have a buudy spin the output shaft as you're trying to align it. It can make a difference. Let us know how you fare!
 
And don't forget to hold your tongue just right. Sometimes getting that stupid shaft to slide in can be the biggest pain in the butt. I fought with one until I thought I was gonna pull my hair out. (When I had hair.) I would have sworn that there was no way that the parts would ever phyically fit together. I had a buddy come help, and we eventually got it together.

It is for sure a crank that is correctly drilled for a manual transmission, right?

The others all have good advice. Make sure you use an allignment tool, and do everything you can to make lining the two up as easy as possible. Bolt the bellhousing to the engine, and then try sliding the bellhousing and transmission together. The more hands and eyes you have available to help line it up and wiggle it, the better.
 
Agreed it's coming back out. There is just something up because the input shaft is in the pilot bushing hole of the crank but it will not slide back any further. The trans is in gear and at one point I couldn't turn the crankshaft and thought I had it but it would not go back ---->

Captain,

Yeah I used a clutch alignment tool

The only reason I didn't put everything together first is because it wasn't hard at all coming out.

I've never installed a motor to a 4-speed ....they always been automatics.
 
ide take a measurement before you pull it apart,,measure from the face of the block,,or bell housing, then pull it apart,, take the clutch and plate off slide the tranny back in to the crank,,with out the clutch,,as far as it will go,, take that measurement,,if it is the same,,your crank, may not be drilled all the way,, or you may have the incorrect pilot bearing or as stated damaged your pilot bearing,,, if the pilot bearing is correct and not damaged,, and the trans input shaft is the pilot bushing most of the way,and you are still bottoming out,,the crank may not be drilled all the way,,get a cut off wheel and take a little bit off the input shaft,,but MEASURE,,MEASURE and look at every detail before shortening the input shaft,,measure the depth of the crank pilot hole also,,
 
Thats about the distance created by a clutch disc installed backward.
I'll mate an engine to existing automatic trans but when its manual trans I'll get the engine in place first then install bellhousing , then trans.
When you get tired and frustrated walk away is the best plan.
DONT GET INJURED !
 
Good comments, would definitely put it all together first. One last thing- looks like you're using an aftermarket bell, these are usually way off as far as alignment. You should check with a dial gauge & will most likely need offset dowels, Robb & other have some nice adjustable ones.
 
I had the problem Fast Fish is talking about and had to cut my input shaft, if this is the first time the tranny has mated to the flywheel could be the problem. Aligning the bellhousing is time consuming but highly recommended. The most difficult part for me was fabbing the brackets to hold the dial indicator.

I also had trouble stabbing the transmission (even with the alignment tool) because the 10.95” scallop clutch I’m using puts so much pressure on the flywheel there is just no slop. I wound up removing the torque on the pressure plate to allow some clutch slippage and stabbed the tranny, then re-torque the pressure plate.

Good Luck
 
Before you pull it back out, try pushing the clutch pedal down while trying to wiggle the motor into place. We did it that way for years. Works perfectly as long as the clutch linkage is still hooked up.

Good Luck,

George
 
I'm no expert but, wouldn't it be easier to mount the engine in place and work with the tranny to stab it? Also in your pics it looks like the bolts your using to hold everything are about a half inch out the back of the tabs. Are you sure they are not hitting anywhere? I sure hope you find the issue, I'm curious since I may do this swap some day. Nevermind on the bolts, I see now that they are screwed into the housing.....told you I was no expert:)
 
It easiest to take it all out and put it together outside the car. Then put everything back in as one.
 
Ok. Thanks everyone for replying.

I took the motor back out as soon as I got home and it looks like I mushroomed the pilot bushing. There is a small hump in the bushing that looks real shiny because the input shaft was hitting it. The bushing was pushed back 3/16" into the crank further than where I installed it.

Now my question is why did the alignment tool fit but the input shaft of the trans will not??

I slid the bushing over the input shaft of the trans before I installed it into the crank and it fit like good. I also checked the clutch to make sure it fit the splines of the input shaft and would slid on. The clutch has a sticker on it that states "Flywheel side" so I got that right.

Well anyways the old bushing is out and there is a new one soaking in oil ( don't ask me why but that is what I read to do) . I tried talking to my local ace mechanic to see if he has the proper tool to install the bushing without mushrooming it but he wasn't at home.

Anyone know a better way than beating in with a socket??

The way I'm going to install it this time is take the transmission out clean it good, check everything, mount the trans/bell housing to the motor, AFTER I do a bunch of measuring. I might have to cut the input shaft but really don't think that is the case. I screwed the pilot bushing up.

Blues65,

You might have hit the nail on the head. I have went from a 10.5 clutch to a Mcleod 10.95 clutch and a Mcleod diaphragm pressure plate. I more than likely will have to do the same thing you did so thanks for the info!
 
Put the pilot bushing in the freezer for awhile.Then after it is ice cold install the bushing.Putting it in freezer causes the bushing to contract.Once it reaches room temperature it should fit nice and snug.
 
good idea on the freezer trick,,,

while the bushing is out,, put the bell housing back on,,bolt up the tranny,, if it goes all the way in,, its your bushing that is the problem,, if it does not go all the way in measure the depth of the crank hole and the length of the input shaft,,

also there are 2 different pilot bushings for mopar,,some cranks have a bigger hole,, i dont remember the demensions,,, but i think they are very close,, the difference on the bushing would be the outer diameter,,if you are pounding in the bigger bushing to the smaller hole,, it will deform the bushing causing it to be out of round,,or have a burr , or just plain be a tighter fit,,,

but i do have a dumb question,, since ive never removed a pilot bushing,, how did you get it out?? did you split it??? if you did you may need to deburr the crank hole before installing the new one,,
 
fstfish66 said:
good idea on the freezer trick,,,

while the bushing is out,, put the bell housing back on,,bolt up the tranny,, if it goes all the way in,, its your bushing that is the problem,, if it does not go all the way in measure the depth of the crank hole and the length of the input shaft,,

also there are 2 different pilot bushings for mopar,,some cranks have a bigger hole,, i dont remember the demensions,,, but i think they are very close,, the difference on the bushing would be the outer diameter,,if you are pounding in the bigger bushing to the smaller hole,, it will deform the bushing causing it to be out of round,,or have a burr , or just plain be a tighter fit,,,

but i do have a dumb question,, since ive never removed a pilot bushing,, how did you get it out?? did you split it??? if you did you may need to deburr the crank hole before installing the new one,,
Click to expand...

I have done several objects with the old freezer trick .... it works.

I took the Dremel tool and cut a groove front to back making sure not to go all the way through to the crank. Then took a screw driver and hit it a few times to make the bushing smaller. Then took a little hook tool I have and pulled it out.
 
Freezer is good maybe warm up the crank a little with a hair drier or let it sit in the sun some.
 
340sFastback said:
Freezer is good maybe warm up the crank a little with a hair drier or let it sit in the sun some.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should put the whole transmission in a freezer and the input shaft will shrink. And then it will fit the motor! LOL!

There has been a lot of great ideas and I will hit on all of them before it is over. If I could find a old input shaft or the proper install tool for the bushing I would feel a bit more confident. I don't want to do the same thing twice.
 
Another trick to get the pilot bushing out.Fill the bushing full of grease in the crank,then shove something that is solid down the center of the pilot bushing.It may take several times.
 
Old trick I learned from my Pop on removing the bushing is to fill the hole with grease. Find yourself a junk shaft or piece of rod close to the size of the ID of the bushing. If needed, wrap electrical tpe around shaft to take up the gap. Insert the rod / shaft in the bushing and tap with a hammer. The hydraulic pressure / grease will push the bushing out. Rog
 
take the bushing to a hardware store and find a large bolt that the shoulder fits snug in the bushing . buy a nut that fits also. screw the nut on and cut the head off and debur it with a file. Then slide the shoulder in till the nut hits and you have a cheap driver. good luck
 
Hi Fast Fish, Way back when I was overhauling the GMC clutch; I purchased a pilot bushing puller (it’s a lot like a dent puller) to get the old bushing out, It worked good on the Barracuda too. I don’t remember where I found it, but was likely from Northern tools or one of the other suppliers. I am tired of making do and too old to fight with it any more. I put a pilot bearing back in the Barracuda when I installed the 360.
 
Advance Auto has a tool lending practice. You basically pay for the tool, use it, then return it for a full refund. If you don`t return it that`s your perrogative and they`re not out of any coin, if you do, it costs you nothing. The pilot bearing puller is one of the tools offered.
 
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