Perf. Tips Dart Drag Car

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The Shocker

The Shocker

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Sherman Texas
I am having a blast with my oldschool Dart ,but i am always wanting more mph and ET .Does anyone see anything that could be better performance wise? I am not talking about cosmetic ,mainly because it wont help it go faster and i kinda like the patina on it ,for the nostalgia racing events that i attend.The car runs low 11.80 's at 113 mph in the 1/4 and 7.50's at 91 mph in the 1/8 .The car is dependable and has 90 passes under its belt .What should i try ,more cam ,gear change ,bigger carb ,header extensions maybe.Im not after big gains just lots of little ones.I have sum $ to spend ,but not a lotto winner either.The car is a race only deal,so i dont care about drivabilty .I launch on the foot brake at about 2400 and i shift at 5800 (when it runs out of cam) .Any tips from you Mopar freaks:toothy10: would be helpfull ,since i am new to them,and what they like .Heres what it has and thanks :

Mild 408 with 10 to 1 with eagle rods
Econo W2 heads
Harlan Sharp roller rockers
Hedman fenderwells
Victor intake
Edelbrock perf. rpm cam
750 Demon
Holley Blue running in line with a
Carter Mechanical (3/8 line all the way)
Msd dist ,6al ,and blaster coil with Taylor wires
adapted PowerGlide ,with transbrake( i havent used the brake ,because i dont think the slicks will hold it) and manual body (3000 stall)
8 3/4 rear with 35 spline Mosier axles ,full spool and 4.10 gears
8.5 M/T slicks and no traction bars other than clamps on the front sides Homeade subframe connectors welded completely
I run it on 100 octane gas and it seems to like it over 93 octane,should i try more octane with only 10 to 1 ? I ordered a battery relocation kit for the trunk .I have gutted about 150 lbs of weight since i last raced it ,so it might be running 11.70's as is now...

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Here's a few things I could think of for little gains. Dragshocks might give you a little. Your MSD distributor, have you optimized the springs. Pinion snubber might help. What size cam are you running? What temp is the engine when you make a pass. Mine really seems to like 170. I know you're running a powerglide and that may change what you should do coming from a guy who has a 904 pushbutton. I would think setting a car up with a powerglide is totally different than a 3 speed so my suggestions may be off but it's worth a try. Jayson
 
Higher octane gas will most likely not help but make you slower It's funny on what an engine likes and doesn't.

Light weight wheels for and aft with the skinny's up front for sure.

Dump the cam for another. I'd look at a Huges or Lunati or Comp high lift in that order.

Are the W-2's ported and are they the long valve version?
What size primary tube header do you have on there and what size and type of exhaust are you running.
(Example; true duals @ 2-1/2 or X pipe @ 3 inch etc.....)
Drag shocks for and aft and what about T-bar size?

These are area's of possible improvment.

What are your 60ft. times and I would just try the trans brake anyways. If the tires hold, great! Just remember to air down and heat them up as needed, not over done.
 
Do you have that velocity stack sealed to the hood with a scoop? It's hard to tell from those pictures. If you don't have a scoop, or if there's not a lot of space between the top of that stack and the scoop get rid of it. Go with a high-flowing K&N filter that sticks up through the scoop.

What are your 60 foot times?
Does the car squat or sit straight on launch?
 
Sorry i left out some details .I run open dumps (no mufflers) .It had lite weight 5 star on it when i got it ,but the 4 inch Cragers on the front dont seem to weigh much more than the others.I know the steelies in the rear are hurting me sum on the drag and unsrumg weight ,but i like the old school look ,so its a compramise .I am not sure on the heads .I am not real familuar with these mopars .My best 60' was 1.65 ...
 
mikelbeck said:
Do you have that velocity stack sealed to the hood with a scoop? It's hard to tell from those pictures. If you don't have a scoop, or if there's not a lot of space between the top of that stack and the scoop get rid of it. Go with a high-flowing K&N filter that sticks up through the scoop.

What are your 60 foot times?
Does the car squat or sit straight on launch?
Click to expand...
The scoop is not sealed to the stack yet ,but im going to make a pan to do it.It lifts the front off the tires a bunch on the launch and the rear sqauts a bit i think .My best '60 was a 1.65 on a good treated track .Heres a vid of a sorry 1.73 '60 a while back on an untreated 1/8 track .This was also before i gutted the weight off the front ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLPbah_LRVs
 
rumblefish360 said:
Higher octane gas will most likely not help but make you slower It's funny on what an engine likes and doesn't.

Light weight wheels for and aft with the skinny's up front for sure.

Dump the cam for another. I'd look at a Huges or Lunati or Comp high lift in that order.

Are the W-2's ported and are they the long valve version?
What size primary tube header do you have on there and what size and type of exhaust are you running.
(Example; true duals @ 2-1/2 or X pipe @ 3 inch etc.....)
Drag shocks for and aft and what about T-bar size?

These are area's of possible improvment.

What are your 60ft. times and I would just try the trans brake anyways. If the tires hold, great! Just remember to air down and heat them up as needed, not over done.
Click to expand...
Thats another thing ,the tire pressure. 13 lbs seem about right or should i try more, less ?This was a slant 6 car ,so im guessing it still has the factory 6 torsion bars and springs in it,they look like the ones it came with to me (untouched).Is this good or bad on the springs to be 6 cylinder stuff?
 
I'd put that 45 pound battery in the trunk, relatively cheap to do.........
Are you planning on moving up to a fuel cell with an electric pump?
Different front wheels (lightweight) will help a bit more.........
Daryl
 
Not knowing the weight of the car? I'm thinking the glide probably has a 1.76 low gear? which is probably killing the 60 ft time. What RPM is it turning at the traps? I'm thinking a 4.88 gear would help your car alot.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Not knowing the weight of the car? I'm thinking the glide probably has a 1.76 low gear? which is probably killing the 60 ft time. What RPM is it turning at the traps? I'm thinking a 4.88 gear would help your car alot.
Click to expand...
Its turning about 6000 in the lights at 113 mph ,with the short slicks which is the end of the cam .If i dont upgrade the cam ,i think lower gears would hurt my top end (i mean it would top out motor wise before i get to the end of the 1/4).It would proly help my 1/8 mile Et a bunch with 4.88's though.The motor seems to pull the car easily the whole way ...
 
440WIP said:
I'd put that 45 pound battery in the trunk, relatively cheap to do.........
Are you planning on moving up to a fuel cell with an electric pump?
Different front wheels (lightweight) will help a bit more.........
Daryl
Click to expand...
I ordered a battery relocation kit .It already has a fuel cell and aHolley Blue electric pump running in line with the mechanical .Agreed on the wheels ...
 
i'll suggest trying out an 18" collector extention, also try the transbrake and start out at your foot brake rpm and go up or down on rpm until you find what your hotrod likes. you might change the cam to a solid in the .600" + range and and 850 carb. oh and that scoop probably doesn't take in any air either. that should just about deplete your wallet. another thing, who's head did you shrink?
 
For traction I use cal track bars. My wifes 408 dart has run 1.58 60 ft on 8x26 drag slicks on the foot brake. With only a 3000 converter you should have no traction problems even with the trans brake.
 
ditch the machanical pump. move the filter to the rear. in front or behind the holley blue. what size is the current cam? With that PG your Hp to weight and stall is going to limit your cam choices. Run 93 octane. Big octane numbers work backward than what you think. Have the heads milled to increase compretion if you can. while they are off you can have the sping rates checked (this will help in cam choice) if you have the funds look into having them ported. And play with the normal stuf like timing, jets, tire pressure.
 
you say you have 8.5 tires...what size?? height?? 4.10 gear seems to tall for what you are doing as well as the 2 speed glide.. i think changing the gear would help quite abit even if you are running small tires.. you need to find the SWEET SPOT with your motor.. bringing the RPM's up higher and seeing how the car likes it is important.. alot of people buy the best parts on the market but if you dont use them correctly, then you might as well set your money on fire..i use a calculator to help figure which set-up is closer to what you are trying to do..but you need to go back to the basic's with your car..knowing what your motor is capabale of and build off of that..(It is the heart of your car) getting the correct cam to work with the right convertor, having them work with the trans, gear ratio & tire size..once you have gotten that straight then you can move on the small details.. otherwise you are wasting your time.. start at the beginning.. and only change one thing at a time so you can see what affect it has.. use a note book and take notes on the cars reaction to the changes..knowing what your heads flow and using a cam that is best suited for them..call and have a cam ground for the car..try different carbs and see how it helps or hurts, change the timing,tire pressure..lots of small things can be done. but if you are not using the motor to it's full capisity then your wasting your time and money chasing your tail...

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The Shocker said:
Thats another thing ,the tire pressure. 13 lbs seem about right or should i try more, less ?This was a slant 6 car ,so im guessing it still has the factory 6 torsion bars and springs in it,they look like the ones it came with to me (untouched).Is this good or bad on the springs to be 6 cylinder stuff?
Click to expand...

Tire pressure sounds like it is in a good area though a couple of pounds in ethier direction can make a difference. This is why I said try different pressures. If you haven't allready. The slant 6 T-bars are fine and spending more money on the slightly thinner drag bars would probably yeild little i gain.

The rear springs should be replaced by a better set up. There hurnting you a bit. While theres a few people here running a very low 1.5 or quicker time with /6 springs, I do beileve a gain can be found with even a basic S/S set up or the very popular Cal-Trac system.

You run a good time for that cam you have. Considering Edelbrock had it designed for a "In general High Performance useage" in mind and not drag racing. That cam by compare to a more drag oriented designed cam is lazy and taking advantage of the head. *Even there own head, never mind the W-2 head.
 
This place is a gold mine ,lots of stuff for me to tinker with.I appreciate the good advise and i have sum work ahead of me.Thanks again guys ,and i will keep my progress posted ...
 
rumblefish360 said:
Tire pressure sounds like it is in a good area though a couple of pounds in ethier direction can make a difference. This is why I said try different pressures. If you haven't allready. The slant 6 T-bars are fine and spending more money on the slightly thinner drag bars would probably yeild little i gain.

The rear springs should be replaced by a better set up. There hurnting you a bit. While theres a few people here running a very low 1.5 or quicker time with /6 springs, I do beileve a gain can be found with even a basic S/S set up or the very popular Cal-Trac system.

You run a good time for that cam you have. Considering Edelbrock had it designed for a "In general High Performance useage" in mind and not drag racing. That cam by compare to a more drag oriented designed cam is lazy and taking advantage of the head. *Even there own head, never mind the W-2 head.
Click to expand...

bOb shingler said:
i'll suggest trying out an 18" collector extention, also try the transbrake and start out at your foot brake rpm and go up or down on rpm until you find what your hotrod likes. you might change the cam to a solid in the .600" + range and and 850 carb. oh and that scoop probably doesn't take in any air either. that should just about deplete your wallet. another thing, who's head did you shrink?
Click to expand...
Thats a genuine imported african shrunken head that i bought at a car show years ago.Its made from dried monkey skin and lama hair .It even has real monkey bones sewn in its ears and mouth .Dont remember what i paid for it ,but i wouldnt part with it for anything.He hangs around ,gets slamed into the roof when i launch ,and never complains about anything.He has went through a clutch explosion and a rearend caboom in my old drag car and is one of the best copilots a racer could want...

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i would say wider wheels in the back if they dont hold the transbrake. and i would think a higher gear ratio would help some. the powerglide is 2 speed right? if so you dont wanna run outta gear but idk. im not experienced in racing but am learning:) sweet car to i love the vintage. just a thought an electric fuel pump might free up a tiny bit for the motor lol. then juice it:)
 
I ditched the mechanical fuel pump and am just using the Holley Blue now.I also made a ghetto sealed scoop pan for the air horn on the Demon.It can draw nothing but outside air now .I hope this stuff helps my Dart in Missouri in a few weeks.Its a 1/4 mile track and maybe some pressurised cooler air will help me into 11.70's .The scoop is a bit shorter than i would think is ideal ,but it looks cool and fits the 60's theme on this dart .More changes are coming ,and thanks again for the good advise ...

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Im gona make one of these but so the air is forced into the filter and not all over the place
 
Getto scoop and sealer, LOL, that's Car craftin baby! Good work.
 
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