Any interest in Gen 3 Solid roller lifters?

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MRL Performance

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I am thinking about make a few sets, but was wondering if there is any interest in them. I would think so, and I think there is at least one place that is making them, but we may be able to do them better and at a better price.
 
Hell yea make them!!! The Gen III Hemi is definitely behind the LS series engines. We need all the help we can get!
 
Get to making them, we need a good solid roller lifter!!!
 
YES!! Make some good ones!! I want to run around .700 lift!!
 
I need some real commitment on these before I lay out a bunch of $$$ doing all the R&D. I guess what Im asking is, would YOU actually buy a set if I can get them done for under $600 a set????
 
Honestly. It is so costly to get a double spring on a gen3 Hemi card. I can't see any real use for a solid roller or anything over. 615 lift. The heads have resonance issues above. 650 and the heads stop flowing.

If you can make a reasonably priced dual spring/roller rocker setup, it would be a different conversation.
 
I think we will see if we can make a set and see what what we can do. Maybe make a good steel dog bone collar instead of the plastic one from the factory.
 
Without an adjustable valvetrain I don't see the point. As to running a dual valve spring could you not have a valve made with the lock groove located down enough to give rocker clearance? I'm sure it would open up other issues,but has anyone any experience with this conversion? I'm not keen on beehive springs and the thought of a cheap spring taking out a build really leaves me hesitant to do a late hemi.
 
There are lots of great single springs out there. There are some double srpings, but the springs are $500, the rockers are $1000, there is $1000 worth of machine work on the heads, and then you need aftermarket valve covers to the tune of another $1000. $3500 to run a dual spring seems a little steep to me. .600 lift cams make plenty of power in the new hemi though
 
I like the idea of a stock stroke 6.1L Hemi with a high lift cam that will spin between 7K and 8K.

Only downside is Harland Sharp adjustable roller tipped rockers are 1800.00 per set. By the time you upgrade the springs, order a custom ground cam, and buy a set of solid roller lifters your pretty near the cost of a blower that you can bolt on in an afternoon with more power.

Like I said, I like the idea of a high revving naturally aspirated motor. But the economics seem to be against it happening. One of my dream Hemis would be a stock stroke naturally aspirated hemi that put out 650HP with ITBs, as of right now, I don't see it happening, at least not on my budget. :(

B5Blue,

Resonance in the head? Little more explanation would be nice. Could this resonance be the result of a lack of decent intake manifolds? Right now manifold choices are too limited. The 6.1l Manifold seems to have too long of a runner for truly high rpm use, while the Indy Mod Man manifold and XV manifold don't seem have any development work done to them at all. I'm no expert but those manifolds seem to be full of compromises. No runner length to speak of and a plenum as big as a house. The fact that theses engines still perform well with these manifolds is a testament to excellent head design and modern carbs that must atomize the fuel really well.

If I'm wrong about the manifold, feel free to school me. ;)

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
The intakes are a weak spot. More than anything I thinks its a development issue. The tuning is about 5 years into its maturity, Dodge doesn't support aftermarket development like ford and Chevy. They price blocks and heads out of reach of the average Joe while you could buy ls3 heads for 200 a piece when they came out.

Anyway, the resonance issues IMO are caused by the intakes. Dodge addressed it in the active runner intakes on the 6.4. They are long runner up to 4000 rpm and switch to short runner above that. That's the same range that stock tunes pull 3 degrees of timing on 6.1 motors. No one runs the single plane manifolds because the springs/rockers, and cams. You loose so much torque that you can't make up with lift and rpm.
 
Yes!! the factory intakes are designed for 4000lbs with small CID engines,no wonder that at RPM's they die. "No one runs the single plane manifolds because the springs/rockers, and cams." Yep just ask all those guys running the SINGLE PLANE DRAG PACK intakes to switch to a 6.1 intake for a big HP loss,yep even within the rules the factory intake is good at what it's designed for. As far as this resonance idea it's all math and easy to predict if you know what your trying to do. It's all in the combo!
 
Drag pack cars weigh 3200#. That's a far cry from.the 4400# of a stock LX. Not comparing apples to apples at all. Most of them have jesel rocker setups and more money between the head gasket and valve cover than the average Joe spent on their entire motor.

I agree its all in the combo. But the combo takes weight, stall, gears all into consideration. I've owned 3 LX cars, everyone one was built. I tune LX cars, lots and lots of em. If anyone knows the limitations of the gen3 Hemi its me.

Ill take the 60 ftlbs over the 60 horsepower any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
 
But your assuming a 4000lb car in the mix(as I thought). My feeling is who would do such a thing when a real car should weigh under 3000lbs if performance is a goal. It's the assuming that is the trouble,too many blanket statements that could lead the wrong direction.
 
Well - it'll be interesting to see what tq the 6.1 with a Modman makes with a well tuned 800cfm AVS and supersucker..........it'll have to make more than 420 at 4500 to beat my old iron headed 318/392 stroker....

Guesses?
 
Rat Patrol said:
Well - it'll be interesting to see what tq the 6.1 with a Modman makes with a well tuned 800cfm AVS and supersucker..........it'll have to make more than 420 at 4500 to beat my old iron headed 318/392 stroker....

Guesses?
Click to expand...
I'd guess that you'll need more converter and gear if you want to run quicker than the old combo.
 
Goldmember, I think we are saying the same things, just coming from different vantage points. I think the weight is key. I am used to designing cams to get as much torque as possible to move out 4000#+ cars that dead hook on drag radials. To that point, you work with the intake that you have available and the best intake in that scenario is the stock 6.1 intake. The stock 6.1 cam starts giving up about 5600-5700.

Ratpatrol, I have a cam for you based on the setup you are going to run. You can run it with stock heads all you have to do it changes the valve seals for a little extra clearance and the springs to handle the duration and lift.
 
Ratpatrol, I have a cam for you based on the setup you are going to run. You can run it with stock heads all you have to do it changes the valve seals for a little extra clearance and the springs to handle the duration and lift.
Click to expand...

Tell me more about this cam. I am putting a 6.1L Hemi in a 67 Dart with a 4 Speed and a Gear Vendors OD. 3.73 to 4.10 rear end gears (leaning towards 4.10s) 1 3/4" TTI Long Tube Headers. 85mm Throttle body. Hoping to get the weight of the car below 3200 Lbs.

Would like to see 500 to 525 HP. (Of course people in hell would like ice water as well ;) )

Also any experience with Hilborn Injection, seems you could simply adjust stack length to your torque peak. ie. torque peak of 5,500 RPM = a runner length of 14.63"

http://www.hilborninjection.com/product.asp?Id=405&CatId=177

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe, are you taking 500 rwhp? You aren't getting there with a 6.1 I can tell you that much.

Now if you are taking about 500 fwhp that is no problem, the right heads and cam will get you there.
 
Yeah, I'm talking flywheel. Though considering you can get 600 flywheel HP out of a 340 with heads that don't even flow as good as a stock 6.1L Hemi, I think 600 at the flywheel should be obtainable.

Whether you can make 600 HP naturally aspirated out of 6.1L for a reasonable price is a different question entirely.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
Yeah, I'm talking flywheel. Though considering you can get 600 flywheel HP out of a 340 with heads that don't even flow as good as a stock 6.1L Hemi, I think 600 at the flywheel should be obtainable.

Whether you can make 600 HP naturally aspirated out of 6.1L for a reasonable price is a different question entirely.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you'd need custom forged slugs either way - partly for the P_V clearance you'd need for the hi lift roller, and partly just as insurance.
 
Joe Dokes said:
Yeah, I'm talking flywheel. Though considering you can get 600 flywheel HP out of a 340 with heads that don't even flow as good as a stock 6.1L Hemi, I think 600 at the flywheel should be obtainable.

Whether you can make 600 HP naturally aspirated out of 6.1L for a reasonable price is a different question entirely.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

On a max effort 6.1 with custom pistons, roller rockers, dual springs it can and has been done. It is a VERY expensive top end though
 
We are still willing to make them, but if there is no real interest, we just can not justify the cost. Been there done that. We are currently making the BEST solid roller lifter, but they are not selling as well as I would like. Everybody wants cheap cheap cheap. Well cheap and solid roller high HP engine dont go well together. Ill put our lifters up against any $1000 set of lifters any day! And Ours are 1/2 that price.
 
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