linkage problem

I just put my 4 speed back in my 67 Cuda after rebuilding it. I'm anxious to see how it drives but when I try reverse she just doesn't want to shift. First is okay, second is tough to get, third and fourth are great.
I read in the service manual that a special tool is used to line up the slots in the bottom of the shifter. Since I didn't have the tool, I used a dowel to line them up. This was when it was still on the bench. Maybe that didn't work?
The car shifted okay ( just okay) before the rebuild. The linkage rods have been bent, broken and welded over time. Maybe I need to order new ones.
I'm gonna tinker some more with it, but any suggestions would be appreciated.

Try moving the reverse lever without the linkage hooked up. If it still doens't fall in you need to re-adjust the side cover assembly.

Seems like the special tool I used was an allen wrench to line up the shifter. When it is all lined up you need to pull the rods off the transmission levers and see if they fall further one direction or the other to the correct detent stop. Then adjust the rod ends to fit the new lever locations.

Dan Brewer said:

Try moving the reverse lever without the linkage hooked up. If it still doens't fall in you need to re-adjust the side cover assembly.

Click to expand...

The lever moves for reverse. The problem seems to be the shifter. I went through lining them up again, and first through fourth seem good. But no matter how hard I push left, I can't get the shifter to engage reverse. Only first gear.

OH-OH
Did you take the shifter apart?
When the vehicle is stopped, it is often hard to shift all gears. Sometimes the parts inside don't line up. Sometimes a brass will screw itself onto a cone real tight, and then it has to be freed by turning the driveshaft.
If you are sure you got the neutralgate lined up AND, all the levers are secured on the tranny, then a road test is in order. The alternative is to get the rear wheels in the air,stick her in first, and ease it out. You may need to ride the brake a bit during the upshifts.I wouldn't try downshifting. The wheels need to be stopped to shift into reverse.

AJ/FormS said:

OH-OH
Did you take the shifter apart?
When the vehicle is stopped, it is often hard to shift all gears. Sometimes the parts inside don't line up. Sometimes a brass will screw itself onto a cone real tight, and then it has to be freed by turning the driveshaft.
If you are sure you got the neutralgate lined up AND, all the levers are secured on the tranny, then a road test is in order. The alternative is to get the rear wheels in the air,stick her in first, and ease it out. You may need to ride the brake a bit during the upshifts.I wouldn't try downshifting. The wheels need to be stopped to shift into reverse.

Click to expand...

I'll take her for a spin. Thanks for the comment- I'll let you guys know how it went.

Oh, I didn't take the shifter apart, just the trans. This was the first time I tore one down...kinda curious if I put it back together right.

Okay, I took the linkage off the shifter to see if reverse shift would engage. It wouldn't. I did clean the shifter up while the tranny was out - it was pretty grimy. Maybe I moved something out of place...

Go back to post 2. Get the trans shifting into reverse
without a shifter installed. Forward gear levers need to be in neutral to get reverse to engage.
Once you have all gears working without a shifter then install shifter with the centering tool. I use a drill bit. Install shift rods adjusted to a easy to slip fit length with levers positioned in neutral and the centering tool installed.

Umm, Hurst? Inland with the reverse lockout? figured I would ask. I have had the Inland cable come loose. Couldn't be that simple... right?

And one more tiny detail. If you put the reverse lever on upside down: it will be very difficult if not impossible to install the link-rod, with the pin in the neutral gate. But if perchance you managed that, by accidentally putting the tranny in reverse,the internal interlock will prevent engagement of 1st and 2nd.......But not 3rd or fourth.

If this happens to you and by some unknown freak of chance, you engage third with the tranny still in reverse, The engine will instantly stall on clutch engagement.
While it is possible for this to happen, it would be extremely unlikely.
The whole point is to not put the lever on upside down. Or inside out.

Okay, I took the shifter apart last night, cleaned and lubed it, and reinstalled it, hoping that would help. It didn't. So, I took the car for a short drive. First is good, second is not, so I went to third gear. No fourth. So, no second, fourth, or reverse. Neutral could not be more lined up. WTH?

Wish I was close enough to give ya some hands on type help.
Did you get all the gears to engage without the linkage rods installed. (Flipping the levers in and out of neutral one gear at a time?)

Thanks, I wish the same. I checked the gears out after I put the trans back together. I even put the shifter back on and ran it through the gears. I never could get reverse with the shifter on, but I assumed it was because I couldn't get enough leverage on the shifter w/o the trans being mounted. It wanted to tip over when I applied any amount of pressure to the left.

The detent sleeve with the spring and two balls also has a rod that looks like a left over needle bearing that has to be inside of the spring. Do you remember that part? It keeps the two main levers from being out of detent at the same time.

Lots of good pics in this thread
A-833 4 Speed Rebuild pics

mguner said:

The detent sleeve with the spring and two balls also has a rod that looks like a left over needle bearing that has to be inside of the spring. Do you remember that part? It keeps the two main levers from being in detent at the same time.

Click to expand...

Thanks, but I'm positive that was in place. Hope I don't have to drop it and open it back up. Worse things have happened...

Is this an OD transmission or close ratio?

I'm gonna recap what every one has said, because I think you need it all on one page. At or near the end are some notes; be sure to read them all.
Method
#1)Jack the rear tires into the air
#2)Put the tranny in neutral,disconnect all the linkrods, all of them.
#3) verify that the tranny is in neutral by turning the driveshaft. If the driveshaft does not turn, find out why and fix it
#4)grab the frontmost lever,on the tranny.If it is pointing up, move it to the front to engage 4th gear.Verify that the driveshaft does not turn. Put that frontmost lever back into neutral. Verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#5)Take that very same lever and move it to the rear now, to engage 3rd. Make sure it goes all the way rearward into the detent. Verify that the driveshaft does not turn. Move that lever back into neutral, and verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#6)Grab the reverse lever, and shift it in,all the way in. It should move easily until it hits the synchronizer sleeve, It may momentarily hick-up there,as the pointy teeth find a way to bypass eachother, but continue until you hear or feel the detent pop in.Verify that the driveshaft does not turn.
If the lever, at the beginning of the shift seems tight, you will have to fix that, see note(1)
If after indexing the cover, it still seems hard see note (2)
If the lever does not find resistance at about 1/2 way through it's stroke, or hits a wall and will not move, see note (3)
Move the reverse lever back to neutral, and verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#7) Grab the 1-2 lever. If it is pointing up, shift it to the front to engage 2nd. Verify that the driveshaft does not turn.Make sure it is fully engaged. Wiggle the lever back and forth to feel the detent. It should be difficult to initiate movement in either direction, but immediately following, it should become much easier. Backshift to neutral and verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#8)Grab same lever and rotate it to the rear to engage 1st.Make sure the lever is fully detented.Verify that the driveshaft does not turn.Backshift to neutral and verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#9)At this point we know that everything inside the tranny is working fine.
#10)If at any time the driveshaft does not turn when it should, it may be because a brass ring has screwed itself onto a shift-cone. Grab a tire and forcefully crank it over to brake it loose.

Notes;
1)loosen the side cover, all bolts.Push up hard on the cover, hold it there and tighten the two bolts nearest to the lever. Verify that the shifter now initiates movement easily and smoothly.Secure the rest of the bolts and retest.IF it does not freeup the shifting, the tranny will have to come completely apart and the internal reverse lever will have to be swapped out or modified.
(2) Anchor the reverse detent housing with a large open-end wrench(very important), and remove the small reverse detent plug. Recheck the operation of the reverse lever.If it now feels good, then;a)You may have erred on the feel, or b) the detent is actually too stiff.The only way to make it easier is to shim the plug out.(I use paper washers), or c) the detent house is in too far and the internal reverse lever is dragging on it .Loosen the big HH and back it out a half a turn NO-MORE, retest. If clear(better) that detent housing will have to come out and be shimmed out.(I use paper washers). But first you will have to remove the detent mechanism with a magnet. There are two pieces, the spring and a ball. The bottom of the tube is open. If you do not fish out the ball it will fall into the trans, beware!
(3) Did you by any chance put the 1-2 slider on backwards? The pointy teeth of the slider must be pointing to the pointy teeth on the reverse gear.
(4)It is very important to prove that each shift is properly and easily detenting.This should prove that the energizer springs are correctly located and no struts have popped out.
(5) Proving the driveshaft after every shift proves that all the shift-forks are correctly located on the sliders, and none are bent.
(6) The levers on the tranny should be pointing up, except;If you have an O/D box, the frontmost shift lever must be installed pointing down.
(7) reverse at the shifter should to the left and forward
(8)The levers on the tranny must be tight and stay tight. This is critical. I cannot stress this enough. If they move after the gate is set, you will have endless shifting issues.
(9)The shifter must be mounted tight to the adapter, and the adapter must be tight to the tranny.If they move after the gate is set, you will have endless shifting issues.The adapter-plate is well-known to come loose. It uses three special allen-socket flat head SCREWS, and external tooth multi point washers. I blue-loctite and torque them, and then they stay put.
(10)more to follow if I think of anything.

So now, it follows that if the tranny is fine, then the problem lies with the shifter or its install.
You say you rebuilt the shifter. Did you take it apart? Did you take pictures? The Hurst shifter looks pretty simple, but is anything but simple.Every separator plate is different and has a specific orientation. It is very easy to get parts mixed up.So the first thing to do is to verify that all the levers are in the correct locations, and correctly oriented, and that the beast truly shifts.
You will have to clamp the shifter in a bench vise to prove it works. Do not minimize this step. If you don't have such a vise, go find somebody who does.How many times are you willing to RnR the shifter?
.............Insert pictures here................
Finally
So after the shifter is proved,it's time to reinstall it, insert the correct 1/4 inch set-pin, and hook up all the link-rods.Each rod has it's own location and orientation. The pins on the shifter-end swivels of the 1-2, and 3-4 rods usually point to each other.The reverse goes on last.The 1-2 is first in line.
It is possible to mix up the front two external levers; IIRC, the 1-2 swivel goes into it's lever from the backside, while the 3-4 swivel goes in from the outside. I'll have to check.

AJ/FormS said:

I'm gonna recap what every one has said, because I think you need it all on one page. At or near the end are some notes; be sure to read them all.
Method
#1)Jack the rear tires into the air
#2)Put the tranny in neutral,disconnect all the linkrods, all of them.
#3) verify that the tranny is in neutral by turning the driveshaft. If the driveshaft does not turn, find out why and fix it
#4)grab the frontmost lever,on the tranny.If it is pointing up, move it to the front to engage 4th gear.Verify that the driveshaft does not turn. Put that frontmost lever back into neutral. Verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#5)Take that very same lever and move it to the rear now, to engage 3rd. Make sure it goes all the way forward into the detent. Verify that the driveshaft does not turn. Move that lever back into neutral, and verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#6)Grab the reverse lever, and shift it in,all the way in. It should move easily until it hits the synchronizer sleeve, It may momentarily hick-up there,as the pointy teeth find a way to bypass eachother, but continue until you hear the detent pop in.Verify that the driveshaft does not turn.
If the lever, at the beginning of the shift seems tight, you will have to fix that, see note(1)
If after indexing the cover, it still seems hard see note (2)
If the lever does not find resistance at about 1/2 way through it's stroke, or hits a wall and will not move, see note (3)
Move the reverse lever back to neutral, and verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#7) Grab the 1-2 lever. If it is pointing up, shift it to the front to engage 2nd. Verify that the driveshaft does not turn.Make sure it is fully engaged. Wiggle the lever back and forth to feel the detent. It should be difficult to initiate movement in either direction, but immediately following, it should become much easier. Backshift to neutral and verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#8)Grab same lever and rotate it to the rear to engage 1st.Make sure the lever is fully detented.Verify that the driveshaft does not turn.Backshift to neutral and verify that the driveshaft again turns.
#9)At this point we know that everything inside the tranny is working fine.
#10)If at any time the driveshaft does not turn when it should, it may be because a brass ring has screwed itself onto a shift-cone. Grab a tire and forcefully crank it over to brake it loose.

Notes;
1)loosen the side cover, all bolts.Push up hard on the cover, hold it there and tighten the two bolts nearest to the lever. Verify that the shifter now initiates movement easily and smoothly.Secure the rest of the bolts and retest.
(2) Anchor the reverse detent housing with a large open-end wrench(very important), and remove the small reverse detent plug. Recheck the operation of the reverse lever.If it now feels good, then;a)You may have erred on the feel, or b) the detent is actually too stiff.The only way to make it easier is to shim the plug out.(I use paper washers), or c) the detent house is in too far and the internal reverse lever is dragging on it .Loosen the big HH and back it out a half a turn NO-MORE, retest. If clear(better) that detent housing will have to come out and be shimmed out.(I use paper washers). But first you will have to remove the detent mechanism with a magnet. There are two pieces, the spring and a ball. The bottom of the tube is open. If you do not fish out the ball it will fall into the trans, beware!
(3) Did you by any chance put the 1-2 slider on backwards? The pointy teeth of the slider must be pointing to the pointy teeth on the reverse gear.
(4)It is very important to prove that each shift is properly and easily detenting.This should prove that the energizer springs are correctly located and no struts have popped out.
(5) Proving the driveshaft after every shift proves that all the shift-forks are correctly located on the sliders, and none are bent.
(6) The levers on the tranny should be pointing up, except;If you have an O/D box, the frontmost shift lever must be installed pointing down.
(7) reverse at the shifter should to the left and forward
(8)The levers on the tranny must be tight and stay tight. This is critical. I cannot stress this enough. If they move after the gate is set, you will have endless shifting issues.
(9)The shifter must be mounted tight to the adapter, and the adapter must be tight to the tranny.If they move after the gate is set, you will have endless shifting issues.The adapter-plate is well-known to come loose. It uses three special allen-socket flat head SCREWS, and external tooth multi point washers. I blue-loctite and torque them, and then they stay put.
(10)more to follow if I think of anything.

So now, it follows that if the tranny is fine, then the problem lies with the shifter or its install.
You say you rebuilt the shifter. Did you take it apart? Did you take pictures? The Hurst shifter looks pretty simple, but is anything but simple.Every separator plate is different and has a specific orientation. It is very easy to get parts mixed up.So the first thing to do is to verify that all the levers are in the correct locations, and correctly oriented, and that the beast truly shifts.
You will have to clamp the shifter in a bench vise to prove it works. Do not minimize this step. If you don't have such a vise, go find somebody who does.How many times are you willing to RnR the shifter?
.............Insert pictures here................
Finally
So after the shifter is proved,it's time to reinstall it, insert the correct 1/4 inch set-pin, and hook up all the link-rods.Each rod has it's own location and orientation. The pins on the shifter-end swivels of the 1-2, and 3-4 rods usually point to each other.The reverse goes on last.The 1-2 is first in line.
It is possible to mix up the front two external levers; IIRC, the 1-2 swivel goes into it's lever from the backside, while the 3-4 swivel goes in from the outside. I'll have to check.

Click to expand...

First of all, thanks so much for the time you put into your response. I'm hosting a graduation party for my son today, so it'll be tomorrow before I can check into your suggestions. I plan on going right down the line, and I'll let you know what I find. I appreciate your help.

Still looking for pics
Ok ttyl

AJ/FormS said:

Still looking for pics
Ok ttyl

Click to expand...

I didn't take pictures of the shifter, but I did find this video before I attempted to take it apart.

It was a pretty simple procedure, and I made sure to put it back together the way it came apart. Having said that, it still doesn't want to engage reverse. I noticed there is a crack in the metal of the housing. I'm not sure that it would be effecting its function or not. I'll take a picture of that.
As for the tranny itself, this morning I also went through the procedure that you explained. I started out with the rear tires raised, and in neutral. As I went through the levers, I found that the 1-2 and 3-4 levers shift forward easily, and back into neutral easily. However, when I try to turn them backwards, I need to turn the driveshaft slightly in order to get them to turn into gear. But they do turn easily then.
Reverse seems to turn okay. It's a little stiff, but not bad.

After some tinkering, the trans is shifting 1-4 nicely. The reverse shifts good from the lever, but not when hooked up. Bad shifter? It worked before I took it out. Not sure what happened.
Here's the crack in the shifter housing. Could this be the culprit?

AJ/FormS said:

Still looking for pics
Ok ttyl

Click to expand...

Probably not
Since you say the shifter was fine before you took it apart;
the problem has got to be in the shifter internal gate,
or the link-rod adjustment.
Those thin plates are gates. Things only work right when the gates are in right, so that big round button can move from one lever to the next.If a gate was not in right, then the button would hang up.
I didn't think it was possible to assemble them flipped.
But maybe it is................................

Got side-tracked with company. Your video shows it all,tho.

AJ/FormS said:

Probably not
Since you say the shifter was fine before you took it apart;
the problem has got to be in the shifter internal gate,
or the link-rod adjustment.
Those thin plates are gates. Things only work right when the gates are in right, so that big round button can move from one lever to the next.If a gate was not in right, then the button would hang up.
I didn't think it was possible to assemble them flipped.
But maybe it is................................

Got side-tracked with company. Your video shows it all,tho.

Click to expand...

Well the shifter didn't go into reverse before I took it apart. That's kinda why I wanted to disassemble it and see what might be wrong. The car did shift into reverse and go through the gears before I took the engine/tranny out.
I cleaned up/painted the engine which seems to run strong, put a new parts kit in the tranny over the winter, and reinstalled the engine/tranny this spring. Replaced the clutch and T/O bearing.
When I put the shifter back in it didn't go into reverse anymore.
I'm willing to purchase a new shifter, but want to be sure it's the problem.

AJ/FormS said:

Probably not
Since you say the shifter was fine before you took it apart;
the problem has got to be in the shifter internal gate,
or the link-rod adjustment.
Those thin plates are gates. Things only work right when the gates are in right, so that big round button can move from one lever to the next.If a gate was not in right, then the button would hang up.
I didn't think it was possible to assemble them flipped.
But maybe it is................................

Got side-tracked with company. Your video shows it all,tho.

Click to expand...

Figured it out. The slots in the fingers that line up on neutral. The 1-2 and 3-4 slots line up, but the reverse finger has a different kind of slot, that I also lined up with neutral. Made sense to me- why else would they have a slot that would line up with the others? Who knows. The allen wrench even worked with it!
Apparently, that slot doesn't serve any purpose but to confuse someone like myself. So after much wasted time, I put the shifter in a vise, as you suggested, and got the damn thing to shift into reverse. That's when I noticed that the finger itself needs to be lined up with the other two in neutral position. The slot in the reverse finger had nothing to do with the others. Anyway, it's back in and working. Thanks for your help. Maybe someone else can use this bit of info in the future.