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Wicked Knotty

Wicked Knotty

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Messages
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6
Location
Milford, CT.
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Hello all, I was searching around and this site appears to have many active and knowledgeable people on it. I would introduce myself as a 52 year old Police officer from Milford, CT. I have a 1965 Plymouth Valiant Signet convertible. It has slant 6, 3.7 1bbl 4speed std. I had done a little research and found several indicators that there were approximately 2500 of these vehicles produced. Would anyone know how to find info that would narrow down how many were made with the 4 speed std. and Hurst shifter? Bought the vehicle back in 1990 and have been thinking about resto and want to get a gauge of its value and collectability. Thanks for any input
 
welcome aboard, some 4sp had a the Hurst Shifter but I dont think they were stock. does yours have a black or white ball? Is there a pattern sticker on the bezel? Love the black stripe and black top.
 
Welcome Wicked! Retired USAF here. Cool car! I love these verts. How about a few more photos when you get a chance?
 
pishta said:
welcome aboard, some 4sp had a the Hurst Shifter but I dont think they were stock. does yours have a black or white ball? Is there a pattern sticker on the bezel? Love the black stripe and black top.
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Thanks! The ball on shifter is like a dark red with a shift pattern on the ball. Will upload more pics asap
 
Wicked Knotty said:
View attachment 1715135380 Hello all, I was searching around and this site appears to have many active and knowledgeable people on it. I would introduce myself as a 52 year old Police officer from Milford, CT. I have a 1965 Plymouth Valiant Signet convertible. It has slant 6, 3.7 1bbl 4speed std. I had done a little research and found several indicators that there were approximately 2500 of these vehicles produced. Would anyone know how to find info that would narrow down how many were made with the 4 speed std. and Hurst shifter? Bought the vehicle back in 1990 and have been thinking about resto and want to get a gauge of its value and collectability. Thanks for any input
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Welcome!
I joined this site the middle of last year, and I can tell you it contains lots of great information and really helpful people that have a wealth of experience.
I have a book at home that gives production figures for early a bodies, but I'm on the road this week. I did a quick google search and the pdf that came up shows 2,578 65 Signet Convertibles. I posted the link below. I think the book I have at home breaks the production numbers down further to show convertibles with 225/6 and those with 273v8. Nice ride!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw11gvb4mEXqETItXxN4lZrb
 
Thank you for your service, nice vert. Come on Spring!!
 
My Canadian '65 Valiant 'vert was a 170/6, factory 4 speed...came to me with no shift ball, but it was a Hurst shifter...worked well...

val65-3copy.jpg
 
64 Dart 270 said:
Welcome!
I joined this site the middle of last year, and I can tell you it contains lots of great information and really helpful people that have a wealth of experience.
I have a book at home that gives production figures for early a bodies, but I'm on the road this week. I did a quick google search and the pdf that came up shows 2,578 65 Signet Convertibles. I posted the link below. I think the book I have at home breaks the production numbers down further to show convertibles with 225/6 and those with 273v8. Nice ride!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw11gvb4mEXqETItXxN4lZrb
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Awesome! Thanks for the info I appreciate the compliment. Love driving and tinkering with classics.
 
Welcome aboard :thumbsup: Super car there :) It is a drop top and a four speed car!! Love these small pony cars, meet Vic, soon to be back on the streets so you know if I forget to turn my blinker on :lol:

Victoria 7.jpg
 
Wicked Knotty said:
View attachment 1715135380 Hello all, I was searching around and this site appears to have many active and knowledgeable people on it. I would introduce myself as a 52 year old Police officer from Milford, CT. I have a 1965 Plymouth Valiant Signet convertible. It has slant 6, 3.7 1bbl 4speed std. I had done a little research and found several indicators that there were approximately 2500 of these vehicles produced. Would anyone know how to find info that would narrow down how many were made with the 4 speed std. and Hurst shifter? Bought the vehicle back in 1990 and have been thinking about resto and want to get a gauge of its value and collectability. Thanks for any input
Click to expand...
Just got home and pulled our my book. So you should pick up the production option code book (see first pic - this is the book I'm referencing). The second image is the description fot the page info, and the third image has the production numbers for the year/engine/tranny options. If it really was a 4 speed manual 225 from the factory, looks like there were nit too many...

20180201_230635.jpg


20180201_225837.jpg


20180201_225209.jpg
 
64 Dart 270 said:
Just got home and pulled our my book. So you should pick up the production option code book (see first pic - this is the book I'm referencing). The second image is the description fot the page info, and the third image has the production numbers for the year/engine/tranny options. If it really was a 4 speed manual 225 from the factory, looks like there were nit too many...

View attachment 1715137513

View attachment 1715137514

View attachment 1715137515
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64 Dart 270 said:
Just got home and pulled our my book. So you should pick up the production option code book (see first pic - this is the book I'm referencing). The second image is the description fot the page info, and the third image has the production numbers for the year/engine/tranny options. If it really was a 4 speed manual 225 from the factory, looks like there were nit too many...

View attachment 1715137513

View attachment 1715137514

View attachment 1715137515
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Thank you very much for taking the time to research the info form me so if I am reading it correctly, there were only 72 of them produced?
 
Wicked Knotty said:
Thank you very much for taking the time to research the info form me so if I am reading it correctly, there were only 72 of them produced?
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Well this might sound like a long winded answer, but here are my thoughts. First off, you would need to know if it was a factory 225 with a 4 speed manual floor shift. You can tell this by decoding the body tag aka fender tag which is the plate on your drivers side inner fender. There is a line with ABCD... on the tag. There will be a 1-2 digit number under the AB positions that signifies your engine code. For a 65 it looks like 20, 23, and 24 are codes for different versions of the 225 engine. Then your transmission code will be under D. For a 65 it looks like 3 is the code for the 4 speed manual floor shift option.
As for the production numbers, here are my thoughts. First off, I'm relatively new to this and there are certainly a lot of people on this site with a lot more experience than me. Secondly, I have an issue with the book I have which makes me question if it's 100% accurate. The reason I say that is I have 2 64 dart convertibles. One was made at the Hamtrack MI plant and the other at the Newark DE plant. For 64 body tag decoding this book has a different set of rules for decoding the fender tag based on the plant, although for 65 it just has one for all plants. So maybe each plant had their own in 64 and then in 65 they standardized. But for 64, the book lists the decode rules for all the plants, except the Newark plant. I wrote a nice email to the author to ask about this discrepancy, but got back crickets so far. So that makes me question the source material being reporting in the book. For example are the productions number totals directly from Chrysler for the whole model year (in which case they would be accurate), or did Chrysler report by plant and the author is summing those totals and if so and he's missing some plants what does that mean. Maybe that's just me overthinking it. In any case, I just find looking up the data interesting. If it's something you really want to know more about there are some people out there that for a charge will do all the research and certify the results.
 
1151677D-0426-4FF9-9AD6-DA4DD777ED30.jpeg
64 Dart 270 said:
Well this might sound like a long winded answer, but here are my thoughts. First off, you would need to know if it was a factory 225 with a 4 speed manual floor shift. You can tell this by decoding the body tag aka fender tag which is the plate on your drivers side inner fender. There is a line with ABCD... on the tag. There will be a 1-2 digit number under the AB positions that signifies your engine code. For a 65 it looks like 20, 23, and 24 are codes for different versions of the 225 engine. Then your transmission code will be under D. For a 65 it looks like 3 is the code for the 4 speed manual floor shift option.
As for the production numbers, here are my thoughts. First off, I'm relatively new to this and there are certainly a lot of people on this site with a lot more experience than me. Secondly, I have an issue with the book I have which makes me question if it's 100% accurate. The reason I say that is I have 2 64 dart convertibles. One was made at the Hamtrack MI plant and the other at the Newark DE plant. For 64 body tag decoding this book has a different set of rules for decoding the fender tag based on the plant, although for 65 it just has one for all plants. So maybe each plant had their own in 64 and then in 65 they standardized. But for 64, the book lists the decode rules for all the plants, except the Newark plant. I wrote a nice email to the author to ask about this discrepancy, but got back crickets so far. So that makes me question the source material being reporting in the book. For example are the productions number totals directly from Chrysler for the whole model year (in which case they would be accurate), or did Chrysler report by plant and the author is summing those totals and if so and he's missing some plants what does that mean. Maybe that's just me overthinking it. In any case, I just find looking up the data interesting. If it's something you really want to know more about there are some people out there that for a charge will do all the research and certify the results.
Click to expand...
:icon_fU:
Thanks again for your valuable time. I think the pictured tag indicates a “20” under the AB confirming the 225 engine, a “3” under the D, also confirming a standard shift 4 speed vehicle. The information I read would translate that the vehicle was delivered Feb. 23rd and the production number was 00078. The V45 indicates conv. The trim “P4X” indicates black interiorand the paint code of HH1 would be a copper poly, kinda like a dark burnt orange or oxblood. Please advise if you agree or if I am way off base. Also, if you have any info on the persons or providers for further investigation on the origin and certification of the vehicle. I believe the vehicle to be an original numbers matching vehicle, even though its a slant six I would like to do a nice restoration and the confirmed originality would be a positive step for me to invest a big chunk of time and money
 
Wicked Knotty said:
View attachment 1715137614 :icon_fU:
Thanks again for your valuable time. I think the pictured tag indicates a “20” under the AB confirming the 225 engine, a “3” under the D, also confirming a standard shift 4 speed vehicle. The information I read would translate that the vehicle was delivered Feb. 23rd and the production number was 00078. The V45 indicates conv. The trim “P4X” indicates black interiorand the paint code of HH1 would be a copper poly, kinda like a dark burnt orange or oxblood. Please advise if you agree or if I am way off base. Also, if you have any info on the persons or providers for further investigation on the origin and certification of the vehicle. I believe the vehicle to be an original numbers matching vehicle, even though its a slant six I would like to do a nice restoration and the confirmed originality would be a positive step for me to invest a big chunk of time and money
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Here’s a thread on the guy who wrote the book I bought and provides this service, as you will see by reading the thread opinions vary…

galen govier

Another, really cool thing that I am planning to do is to get copies of the build record and some supporting documentation. This is a volunteer group that does this, and they only charge like $55. The link to their site is below with instructions on how to order your build record. I read an article somewhere (don’t remember) on all the documentation they used to provide (like 15 years ago), however, the email response I got a few months ago stated “due to the volume of requests we receive and the modest staff that we have, we are unable to offer the decoding service and copied material that we have in the past… we will send you the build cards. We will, when possible, provide you with the original selling dealers name and city.”

FCA North America - Historical Services - Build Records
 
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