Dual quads versus big hammer!!!...

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PRH said:
Gurus running for cover...... funny.

It’s like, “hey I bought stuff that’s not really right, but it looks cool so I’m gonna run it. Can you help me?”

I have no problem with people doing whatever they want to their cars.
But when it’s something I feel is just the wrong way to go about it...... in the end you’re probably better off getting advice from someone who actually believes you can get completely satisfactory results.
Not from a doubter...... which in this case....... I am.

Also, for me...... carb tuning is a tactile thing.
I need to be there, hands on with it, to see how the motor responds to the changes.
How you interpret the results from a change may not be at all how I interpret the results from a change.
And how the results are interpreted....... form the decisions on what to do next.
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I agree about carb tuning. It's hard to not be there and see what's happening in real time. Also reading plugs with pictures. It's doable and it's close but you miss some of the nuances with a picture.
 
PRH said:
Gurus running for cover...... funny.

It’s like, “hey I bought stuff that’s not really right, but it looks cool so I’m gonna run it. Can you help me?”

I have no problem with people doing whatever they want to their cars.
But when it’s something I feel is just the wrong way to go about it...... in the end you’re probably better off getting advice from someone who actually believes you can get completely satisfactory results.
Not from a doubter...... which in this case....... I am.

Also, for me...... carb tuning is a tactile thing.
I need to be there, hands on with it, to see how the motor responds to the changes.
How you interpret the results from a change may not be at all how I interpret the results from a change.
And how the results are interpreted....... form the decisions on what to do next.
Click to expand...
I never said I bought stuff that wasn't really right and was going to try it anyways? I've seen it on the internet as you seen that I posted it's been done before and actually talked to the people that did it. It's not impossible I'm sure they're just carburetors. unfortunately like you and others have said and even them as well if they're not there watching all the different changes it's hard for them to do anything. the last thing I'm going to do is only have four or five different tri at it and completely give up on it because I have a hesitation in the mid RPM range when I jump on it out of nowhere. Not what I call a normal driving condition but none the less it does operate great everywhere else...
This is where 318 will run and I are very much alike. Just tell us we can't do something... I'm going to try and get things a little more shorted out and in the end the dino (the drag strip) will be the final judge... early indications are telling me that it's going to really perform well but again I'd like to get all these small nuances shorted out... I'm not scared...
and I'm certainly not going to throw in the towel the minute I have my first issue...
 
just an opinion. The secondary air doors are opening too quickly need to slow them down, keep tightening until stumble goes away . You could keep throwing larger squirters at it when the originals were probably ok.The original jets were probably close . The plugs look and probably are too cold as 318 said , thats why there not clean and hard to read .
 
joec said:
just an opinion. The secondary air doors are opening too quickly need to slow them down, keep tightening until stumble goes away . You could keep throwing larger squirters at it when the originals were probably ok.The original jets were probably close . The plugs look and probably are too cold as 318 said , thats why there not clean and hard to read .
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I doubt the jets are close. He doubled the jet area and didn't double the flow.

You can tighten up the doors so they never open. I doubt the bog goes away. If he is having a standoff issue, the secondary air valves not opening won't help that.
 
Standoff from what ? Is the engine turning backwards? Is the reversion now so bad that its blowing the fuel backwards?
 
joec said:
Standoff from what ? Is the engine turning backwards? Is the reversion now so bad that its blowing the fuel backwards?
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That's what we don't know. Jpar says he can see fuel standing off when he mashes on the throttle. I've posted earlier you usually don't see that on stuff with a plenum. You see it with stack injection and Individual Runner carb stuff.

And usually, you see the stand off at idle or very low engine speeds. If you see a stack injected engine with a lot of overlap you can see a mist form over the stacks at idle. It's quite a show sometimes. They can mist, or they can look like little balls being juggled around.

I think if Jpar can get the bog out, he may eliminate the stand off at the same time.

Air does incredible things when it's pissed off. It can flow one direction in one part of a port, and flow the opposite direction in another part of the very same port. I suspect that something similar is happening here. That bog is doing something to upset or exacerbate whatever reversion there is happening under the carbs.

It will be interesting to see how it all washes out.
 
yellow rose said:
That's what we don't know. Jpar says he can see fuel standing off when he mashes on the throttle. I've posted earlier you usually don't see that on stuff with a plenum. You see it with stack injection and Individual Runner carb stuff.

And usually, you see the stand off at idle or very low engine speeds. If you see a stack injected engine with a lot of overlap you can see a mist form over the stacks at idle. It's quite a show sometimes. They can mist, or they can look like little balls being juggled around.

I think if Jpar can get the bog out, he may eliminate the stand off at the same time.

Air does incredible things when it's pissed off. It can flow one direction in one part of a port, and flow the opposite direction in another part of the very same port. I suspect that something similar is happening here. That bog is doing something to upset or exacerbate whatever reversion there is happening under the carbs.

It will be interesting to see how it all washes out.
Click to expand...
Carburetor(s) is one of the tough things to help somebody with over the internet. Suggestions can sometimes be useful, but I think if J par gets this, it will be by his own trial and error. I might read that "bog" as a "cough" (which is different). Just awful tough if your not there in person.
 
joec said:
just an opinion. The secondary air doors are opening too quickly need to slow them down, keep tightening until stumble goes away . You could keep throwing larger squirters at it when the originals were probably ok.The original jets were probably close . The plugs look and probably are too cold as 318 said , thats why there not clean and hard to read .
Click to expand...
I can disconnect the secondaries completely and it still happens...
 
I tried the new squirters but it still didn't seem to take the bog or stumble or cough or whatever you want to call it away, but I didn't see as much standoff and it was a little better. I backed it into the garage and was going to call it a day as I had to work all day as well and got caught in some messed up traffic.. but something told me to take it back out and tried tightening the idle mixture screws. I gave them a quarter-turn each and the O2 sensor finally reacted a little bit. I gave them each anotherquarter turn and it seemed to bring the idle down a little bit and bring the air fuel up to something I like around low 14 to mid fourteens... I took it out for another run and it seemed to have a vast Improvement.. finally I seem to be getting somewhere.. like I've been saying it seems to be running fat all over the place and that's probably my biggest problem. Again the air doors not opening, but just barely bobbling at full throttle.
This was the first breakthrough of seeming like I'm heading in the right direction. :thumbsup:...
I think I'm going to order some smaller Jets for the primary and some bigger metering rods... also looking forward to getting those air doors on Thursday and drilling them and contrary to everybody's believe getting them to open faster. I think it was mentioned in a p.m. today by a member that it could very well possibly be the opposite of what everybody's thinking and myself as well. And quite honestly everything I'm doing towards leaning it is helping..
 
I have have no doubt Jpar you get this ironed out. I for one commend you for the uniqueness of your build, I also built my motor for the uniqueness and the cool factor of a multi carbureted build. dinos have brought great info to our Hobby but they have also killed a lot of the romance of individual builds. Cookie cutter set ups for 10 more horsepower or seven more foot pounds of torque have become the norm. So some people call it jewelry some people call it bling but that works for me my wife doesn't clean my clothes the whitest or make the best meatloaf but she can still Rock a bikini at 40 and is very unique at four foot ten 110 lb so yeah I like bling a lot!
 
K.O. SWINGER said:
I have have no doubt Jpar you get this ironed out. I for one commend you for the uniqueness of your build, I also built my motor for the uniqueness and the cool factor of a multi carbureted build. dinos have brought great info to our Hobby but they have also killed a lot of the romance of individual builds. Cookie cutter set ups for 10 more horsepower or seven more foot pounds of torque have become the norm. So some people call it jewelry some people call it bling but that works for me my wife doesn't clean my clothes the whitest or make the best meatloaf but she can still Rock a bikini at 40 and is very unique at four foot ten 110 lb so yeah I like bling a lot!
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Nothing like going fast and looking good doing it LOL.. more so not interested in cookie cutter but something unique and fun and different and something to call my own... Anyways I just got a great feeling I'm heading in the right direction today..
 
At 58 and married for 36 years , I prefer bright whites and a good meatloaf. lol
 
Oh yeah I did lose one of those little brass or aluminum washers for the squirters in the back carburetor. When I pulled the squirter off I didn't see it and couldn't find it in the flap door so I already assumed the motor ate it...
 
j par said:
Oh yeah I did lose one of those little brass or aluminum washers for the squirters in the back carburetor. When I pulled the squirter off I didn't see it and couldn't find it in the flap door so I already assumed the motor ate it...
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That sucks! Well I guess I'm not the only one that does stuff like that I was turning the six pack
 
K.O. SWINGER said:
I have have no doubt Jpar you get this ironed out. I for one commend you for the uniqueness of your build, I also built my motor for the uniqueness and the cool factor of a multi carbureted build. dinos have brought great info to our Hobby but they have also killed a lot of the romance of individual builds. Cookie cutter set ups for 10 more horsepower or seven more foot pounds of torque have become the norm. So some people call it jewelry some people call it bling but that works for me my wife doesn't clean my clothes the whitest or make the best meatloaf but she can still Rock a bikini at 40 and is very unique at four foot ten 110 lb so yeah I like bling a lot!
Click to expand...
Nice post, but J par is indeed a cookie cutter. He's thrown bad meatloaf and dirty laundry all over my Drag Truck - cuz it ain't a Duster :rolleyes:
:lol:
 
K.O. SWINGER said:
That sucks! Well I guess I'm not the only one that does stuff like that I was turning the six pack
Click to expand...
oops my phone died I was saying I took it out for a test run got home and two of my air cleaner gaskets were down the throat of my Center carburetor, I wonder why it was idling fast LOL
 
Just made a summit order for some more metering rods and jets. Still with all the parts of ordered it's only equal to ordering one tuning kit let alone two of them. They not only come with the Jets that are Factory in the carburetor but jets that are even richer. but starting to step slower and working my way down from there I've had to buy very minimal. They don't come with squirt nozzles and they come with the same Springs you can buy from Edelbrock for one third of the price which I already had.
 
So I'm seeing all this fuel flying and standing off. Especially when I jump on it at Cruise.. when I rev the car with the carburetors unhooked and do it with an individual carburetor the rear air door smack open. When I give the car full throttle at Cruise the doors just bobble and never smack open and I'm loosening the Springs to try and get them to pop open.. in that article where they're using two Street demons that seems to be the problem they were having as well. Again not only going leiner on the primaries I want to get those new doors hopefully tomorrow and start drilling them and seeing what happens when those doors actually do open when I slam the throttle???.. just out of curiosity I wondering if it's the opposite of what I'm thinking... it could quite possibly be the bottom opening up and letting the air and and the top staying closed and not letting air flow over the Ventura's and allowing more fuel to come in... Or maybe too much fuel is coming in and not enough air... Again they did mentioned in that article that they drill the holes because they couldn't get the doors to open no matter how light they made the springs.,
 
I really think you're getting close and agree with your last post I ran thermal quads for many years and if that air door tension isn't right it will play Havoc
 
K.O. SWINGER said:
oops my phone died I was saying I took it out for a test run got home and two of my air cleaner gaskets were down the throat of my Center carburetor, I wonder why it was idling fast LOL
Click to expand...

The final straw for drag races at Monroe was due to an air cleaner gasket getting sucked into the carb. It was drag racing on a 3/8mi oval, from turn 1 in the direction of turn 4. Guy made a pass without the air cleaner and the gasket got sucked in, hanging the throttle. That 100mph right hand turn in a drag car with a spool, skinny front tires, and a hung throttle wasn't something he could do. Went off the end of the track and hit a pile of dirt, then went all Dukes of Hazzard without sticking the landing.

Grant
 
weedburner said:
The final straw for drag races at Monroe was due to an air cleaner gasket getting sucked into the carb. It was drag racing on a 3/8mi oval, from turn 1 in the direction of turn 4. Guy made a pass without the air cleaner and the gasket got sucked in, hanging the throttle. That 100mph right hand turn in a drag car with a spool, skinny front tires, and a hung throttle wasn't something he could do. Went off the end of the track and hit a pile of dirt, then went all Dukes of Hazzard without sticking the landing.

Grant
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Actually found that little circle gasket damn hard to find these days LOL I remember a few years back going to three or four different parts stores looking for one. Damn confused as I thought it should be dime a dozen type thing. Come to find out not too many people have four barrels on their new cars anymore LOL I'm very diligent about grabbing those off when I take the air cleaners off because they're "rare" LOL...
 
j par said:
Actually found that little circle gasket damn hard to find these days LOL I remember a few years back going to three or four different parts stores looking for one. Damn confused as I thought it should be dime a dozen type thing. Come to find out not too many people have four barrels on their new cars anymore LOL I'm very diligent about grabbing those off when I take the air cleaners off because they're "rare" LOL...
Click to expand...

I used to race Outlaw Dirt Latemodels, so my gasket is a super seal rubber unit with a steel insert. The air cleaner on my car right now still has some Skagit Speedway clay in the element, kind of a good luck charm that I refuse to clean out!

Here's a link to a page with a couple of my more interesting DLM's, be sure to scroll down to the bottom and check out the BB Mopar powered car with the backwards engine that I built back in the 80's... http://grannys.tripod.com/4rotor.html

Grant
 
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