Some suspension and brake questions

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RevboxRyan said:
Well I'll have to take a look at the parts and check numbers when I get home from work. This is the only picture I have of the drum/spindle assembly.

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Well that should be easy, those are exactly what we're talking about. 10" drums, 5x4" pattern, should be large ball joint.

All you have to do is clean up the upper ball joint and measure it across the flats, should be ~1.9". The ball joint stud at the top of the taper should be ~.724". And measure the bolt pattern, should be 5x4".

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67Dart440GT said:
For whatever it is worth here are some pics. This set up was on my 71 Demon and my 67 Dart. Obviously upgraded at one point. Both 4.5 with big upper joints and 10 inch drums.

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This is going to confuse things. Those are B/E-body drums, large bolt pattern, large upper ball joint.

A-body 73+ 10" drums were small bolt pattern, 5x4", with large upper ball joints.
 
Another.
72bluNblu said:
Well that should be easy, those are exactly what we're talking about. 10" drums, 5x4" pattern, should be large ball joint.

All you have to do is clean up the upper ball joint and measure it across the flats, should be ~1.9". The ball joint stud at the top of the taper should be ~.724". And measure the bolt pattern, should be 5x4".

View attachment 1715922972



This is going to confuse things. Those are B/E-body drums, large bolt pattern, large upper ball joint.

A-body 73+ 10" drums were small bolt pattern, 5x4", with large upper ball joints.
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I will have to say now that I think about it the ones that were on my 67 Dart were small bolt pattern. So those were 10 inch drums, 4.25 and large upper ball joints.
 
67Dart440GT said:
Another.


I will have to say now that I think about it the ones that were on my 67 Dart were small bolt pattern. So those were 10 inch drums, 4.25 and large upper ball joints.
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Only if they were swapped from a '73 up A-body. '67-72 10" brakes were small bolt pattern, small upper ball joint.

And this goes to my point, just because someone saw something in a wrecking yard some time doesn't mean it came from the factory that way. There are two versions of factory A-body 10" drums and spindles. Up to '72 the 10" drums used a 5x4" pattern (like all A-bodies up until then), and a small upper ball joint (also, all A-bodies up until '72). In '73, the large bolt pattern was implemented on all front disk brake A-bodies, and the UCA's used the large upper ball joint just like the B/E cars did before. 73+ 10" front drum A-bodies kept the 5x4" pattern, but got the large upper ball joint arms.

So, two A-body 10" drum spindles. '72 down has an A6 inner bearing and small ball joint taper. November '72 up (73 model year) used an A17 inner bearing and has a large ball joint taper. Just like the TSB describes.
 
So what you are saying is a small 4" bolt pattern drum will fit on both these spindles. Where are you going to get the hub with the outer bearing that will work on the larger spindle pictured and still fit the small registered 4" BP wheel? The bearing race alone is almost the same size as the small wheel register. I have that same spindle here and mine is off of a 72 Challenger. Probably where you got that one from, Your car .

this is your picture
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72bluNblu said:
Only if they were swapped from a '73 up A-body.


So, two A-body 10" drum spindles. '72 down has an A6 inner bearing and small ball joint taper. November '72 up (73 model year) used an A17 inner bearing and has a large ball joint taper. Just like the TSB describes.
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Well who would have swapped them around in the 70's. That's when I am talking about. My first Duster was 1971 and I have been buying them ever since. I had several of every year.
 
OMM from what I understand, there were 2 types of drum setups from 73 up.

9" SBP smooth drum which used SBJ UCA and older spindle I am assuming from 63-72

10" SBP finned drum which used LBJ UCA and special spindle made from 73-

I got one set of arms off fakebook off a truk lagoon rusty 74 slant sux duster with 10" finned SBP drums. They are BBJ

The other set of BBJs I got out of my local wrecker yard. It was also a 74 valiant slant sux with 10" finned drums.

Wheel studs on the valiant were also smaller than the 1/2" studs on the 5x4&1/2 drums. I think they were 7/16" studs
 
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72bluNblu said:
Only if they were swapped from a '73 up A-body. '67-72 10" brakes were small bolt pattern, small upper ball joint.

And this goes to my point, just because someone saw something in a wrecking yard some time doesn't mean it came from the factory that way. There are two versions of factory A-body 10" drums and spindles. Up to '72 the 10" drums used a 5x4" pattern (like all A-bodies up until then), and a small upper ball joint (also, all A-bodies up until '72). In '73, the large bolt pattern was implemented on all front disk brake A-bodies, and the UCA's used the large upper ball joint just like the B/E cars did before. 73+ 10" front drum A-bodies kept the 5x4" pattern, but got the large upper ball joint arms.

So, two A-body 10" drum spindles. '72 down has an A6 inner bearing and small ball joint taper. November '72 up (73 model year) used an A17 inner bearing and has a large ball joint taper. Just like the TSB describes.
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They were 73 up 10 inch finned drums small pattern large ball joint.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
So what you are saying is a small 4" bolt pattern drum will fit on both these spindles. Where are you going to get the hub with the outer bearing that will work on the larger spindle pictured and still fit the small registered 4" BP wheel? The bearing race alone is almost the same size as the small wheel register. I have that same spindle here and mine is off of a 72 Challenger. Probably where you got that one from, Your car .

this is your picture View attachment 1715922987
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The picture is from a for sale ad here, not mine, that I linked in my post. You can check it yourself. My Challenger came with disks anyway.

And, the outer bearing stayed the same. Only the inner bearing was different. '72 down, 10" drums used an A2 outer and an A6 inner. '73+ 10" drums used an A2 outer, and an A17 inner. Feel free to look it up in your parts exchange.

Regardless, we're going to have the information soon enough. @RevboxRyan can measure his bolt pattern and upper ball joints, they're going to be 5x4" and LBJ.

moparmat2000 said:
OMM from what I understand, there were 2 types of drum setups from 73 up.

9" SBP smooth drum which used SBJ UCA and older spindle I am assuming from 63-72

10" SBP finned drum which used LBJ UCA and special spindle made from 73-

I got one set of arms off fakebook off a truk lagoon rusty 74 slant sux duster with 10" finned SBP drums. They are BBJ

The other set of BBJs I got out of my local wrecker yard. It was also a 74 valiant slant sux with 10" finned drums.

Wheel studs on the valiant were also smaller than the 1/2" studs on the 5x4&1/2 drums. I think they were 7/16" studs
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After the new 10" drums were implemented in '73 the 9" front drums went away. The 9" rears continued. It's in the TSB I posted and linked. I'm sure there was some carryover, but the TSB was published after the changeover happened.
 
moparmat2000 said:
OMM from what I understand, there were 2 types of drum setups from 73 up.

9" SBP smooth drum which used SBJ UCA and older spindle I am assuming from 63-72

10" SBP finned drum which used LBJ UCA and special spindle made from 73-

I got one set of arms off fakebook off a truk lagoon rusty 74 slant sux duster with 10" finned SBP drums. They are BBJ

The other set of BBJs I got out of my local wrecker yard. It was also a 74 valiant slant sux with 10" finned drums.

Wheel studs on the valiant were also smaller than the 1/2" studs on the 5x4&1/2 drums. I think they were 7/16" studs
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I was just over at Todds My neighbor working on the Barracuda. He worked for me years ago tearing these cars apart.. He said the finned drums were small bolt pattern. I asked him about the uppers. He said he don't know we just scrapped them all because they didn't fit any 340 cars.
The way you told me was at least professional. I stated at first from what I remembered. I learn things on this site every day. But I also provide info to many. I said right from the start from what I remembered. I never know what to believe with 72bluNblu because of things I know he is not correct about. So what ever he says I take as him just being a smart ***.
 
72bluNblu said:
The picture is from a for sale ad here, not mine, that I linked in my post. You can check it yourself. My Challenger came with disks anyway.

And, the outer bearing stayed the same. Only the inner bearing was different. '72 down, 10" drums used an A2 outer and an A6 inner. '73+ 10" drums used an A2 outer, and an A17 inner. Feel free to look it up in your parts exchange.

Regardless, we're going to have the information soon enough. @RevboxRyan can measure his bolt pattern and upper ball joints, they're going to be 5x4" and LBJ.



After the new 10" drums were implemented in '73 the 9" front drums went away. The 9" rears continued. It's in the TSB I posted and linked. I'm sure there was some carryover, but the TSB was published after the changeover happened.
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I really don't care what the hell you find out. Its not the info its the way you fucken come across to people . Don't look at what I post don't quote me just troll someone else. Right or wrong I just think your an ***. Have a nice day. Don't forget to quote this.
 
OMM that sucks that you didnt know and scrapped the 10" finned drum cars, because those UCAs are like effing gold these days. I happened to enquire about a set of BBJ A body UCAs and that they are hard to get with my mopar junkyard buddy, and he didnt have any. Then he mentioned 73-75 SBP 10" drum cars. I thought the same thing SBP = small ball joints. He informed me of 2 different SBP drum setups from 73 up. The 9" and the 10". He stated the 9" ones were essentially the same as the 72 down. But the 10" ones used the BBJ.

Based on the TSB the 9" ones went away in 73, but I am betting that they used up what they had in assembly line inventory to get rid of it. However my friend told me to be sure of the drum size and fins before wasting my time to pull them.

I measured a K772 in my shop, took my tools and a 6" scale to the junkyard where the 74 Val was at. I wasnt sure if it had the finned drums or not. As luck was on my side, it did. In my boneyards,All the A body disc brake stuff was gone and used up long ago to the roundy rounder dirt track.

I did get big rotors, calipers, and caliper brackets off a 78 magnum, and a 69 cordoba for both cars. My 67 has A body disc brake spindles, and the B/C body rotors and calipers. My sons car uses M body spindles, and the same B/C body rotor/caliper setup.
 
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OP will still need to get 73 up Disc brake lower ball joints and grade 8 bolts for the swap. You can use these bolts to do this. Get grade 8 and "stove nuts" dimension shown is a bit long. They could stand to be 1/8" to 1/4" shorter than what's shown in my screen shot. You will need 2 per spindle to attach them to the lower ball joint.

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RevboxRyan said:
Well 72BluNblu is correct. 5x4 10 inch drum large ball joint car. So that's nice less stuff to hunt down.

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Awesome! :thumbsup:

Just give DoctorDiff a call. He can get you set up with some 73+ disk brake spindles and brakes. The FMJ cars are good donors, but I almost never see them in the yards anymore.

Depending on how you plan on using the car, you can also run 11.75" rotors from a B/R body car on there. It's a nice stopping upgrade from the 10.95's and they still fit 15" wheels.
 
moparmat2000 said:
OMM that sucks that you didnt know and scrapped the 10" finned drum cars, because those UCAs are like effing gold these days. I happened to enquire about a set of BBJ A body UCAs and that they are hard to get with my mopar junkyard buddy, and he didnt have any. Then he mentioned 73-75 SBP 10" drum cars. I thought the same thing SBP = small ball joints. He informed me of 2 different SBP drum setups from 73 up. The 9" and the 10". He stated the 9" ones were essentially the same as the 72 down. But the 10" ones used the BBJ.

Based on the TSB the 9" ones went away in 73, but I am betting that they used up what they had in assembly line inventory to get rid of it. However my friend told me to be sure of the drum size and fins before wasting my time to pull them.

I measured a K772 in my shop, took my tools and a 6" scale to the junkyard where the 74 Val was at. I wasnt sure if it had the finned drums or not. As luck was on my side, it did. In my boneyards,All the A body disc brake stuff was gone and used up long ago to the roundy rounder dirt track.

I did get big rotors, calipers, and caliper brackets off a 78 magnum, and a 69 cordoba for both cars. My 67 has A body disc brake spindles, and the B/C body rotors and calipers. My sons car uses M body spindles, and the same B/C body rotor/caliper setup.
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I didn't keep any drum brake parts for 73 and newer. No one wanted them back them everyone wanted disc brakes.


I have disc setups spindles uppers and all the hardware. including all the bolts and dust shields. All cleaned and ready to use. from a 73 Dusters. I kept some sets for BB and SB with hardware just incase I would need them.

There is a member that needs one small bolt hub. I have one without a pair I'll sell him.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
I didn't keep any drum brake parts for 73 and newer. No one wanted them back them everyone wanted disc brakes.


I have disc setups spindles uppers and all the hardware. including all the bolts and dust shields. All cleaned and ready to use. from a 73 Dusters. I kept some sets for BB and SB with hardware just incase I would need them.

There is a member that needs one small bolt hub. I have one without a pair I'll sell him.
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I meant to say keep the BBJ UCAs off those cars before junking them.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Now now, theres no reason to poke the guy and add insult to injury. We all learn new stuff over time.
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I'm poking him?

I posted the factory TSB with all the information the OP needed in post #7. It's literally all there, and it's factually accurate. That's not my opinion, it's literally documentation directly from the factory after production was changed explaining what parts came on these cars.

And then he comes out after that and says all the '74+ A-bodies with drums were 5x4.5" with small ball joints. That's "what he's seen" buying and parting all those cars, implying he must be correct because he's seen it.

And then I'm the bad guy because I can't say he's wrong about "what he's seen"? You can't "see" parts that were never made. He was wrong, I said he was wrong and provided all the information to prove it. And then after that he launches into his usual tirade and name calling in post #16. Seriously, read post #16 and say he wasn't being completely insulting and condescending, after the facts were already out there.

Facts are facts. Why am I supposed to "Let the people decide who is right and wrong" as he said when we're talking about parts? A physical thing that exists with certain specifications. That's not something you have an opinion on- that's a part you put on your car and fits or it doesn't.
 
72bluNblu said:
I'm poking him?

I posted the factory TSB with all the information the OP needed in post #7. It's literally all there, and it's factually accurate. That's not my opinion, it's literally documentation directly from the factory after production was changed explaining what parts came on these cars.

And then he comes out after that and says all the '74+ A-bodies with drums were 5x4.5" with small ball joints. That's "what he's seen" buying and parting all those cars, implying he must be correct because he's seen it.

And then I'm the bad guy because I can't say he's wrong about "what he's seen"? You can't "see" parts that were never made. He was wrong, I said he was wrong and provided all the information to prove it. And then after that he launches into his usual tirade and name calling in post #16. Seriously, read post #16 and say he wasn't being completely insulting and condescending, after the facts were already out there.

Facts are facts. Why am I supposed to "Let the people decide who is right and wrong" as he said when we're talking about parts? A physical thing that exists with certain specifications. That's not something you have an opinion on- that's a part you put on your car and fits or it doesn't.
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It’s always the same. He get called on an error and you are the bad guy. I just laugh at the guy.
 
72bluNblu said:
I'm poking him?

I posted the factory TSB with all the information the OP needed in post #7. It's literally all there, and it's factually accurate. That's not my opinion, it's literally documentation directly from the factory after production was changed explaining what parts came on these cars.

And then he comes out after that and says all the '74+ A-bodies with drums were 5x4.5" with small ball joints. That's "what he's seen" buying and parting all those cars, implying he must be correct because he's seen it.

And then I'm the bad guy because I can't say he's wrong about "what he's seen"? You can't "see" parts that were never made. He was wrong, I said he was wrong and provided all the information to prove it. And then after that he launches into his usual tirade and name calling in post #16. Seriously, read post #16 and say he wasn't being completely insulting and condescending, after the facts were already out there.

Facts are facts. Why am I supposed to "Let the people decide who is right and wrong" as he said when we're talking about parts? A physical thing that exists with certain specifications. That's not something you have an opinion on- that's a part you put on your car and fits or it doesn't.
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I was trying to joke around a bit and also try to smooth things over a bit between you two. Look, I saw the TSB myself, and also pulled 2 sets of the big joint arms off 73 up drum brake cars. You are right the TSB should have ended it right there. Facts are facts, and the TSB is the smoking gun. I'm not in either of y'alls corner. But all of us, including OMM can be nicer to one another. When presented with the TSB, a simple

"hmmm interesting, I didnt know that"

would have sufficed on his part. So yeah I get it.
 
72bluNblu said:
Awesome! :thumbsup:

Just give DoctorDiff a call. He can get you set up with some 73+ disk brake spindles and brakes. The FMJ cars are good donors, but I almost never see them in the yards anymore.

Depending on how you plan on using the car, you can also run 11.75" rotors from a B/R body car on there. It's a nice stopping upgrade from the 10.95's and they still fit 15" wheels.
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To use those 11.75" rotors, you'll need the caliper brackets and matching calipers and hardware too. :thumbsup:
 
There still seems to be some incorrect info on the '73 A-body 9" front brakes. Those 9" front hub and drums are unique to early '73. They were finned drums from the factory, have the big upper ball joint, and use the A2 outer and A17 inner bearings.....in fact, they use the same spindle as the '73-6 A-bodies with the 10" drum brakes! The 14" SBP wheels fit all the '60-76 A-body drum brake cars. The 13" SBP wheels do not without grinding or using spacers, as they interfere with the fins on the '73-6 drums. The '60-64 13" wheels (the ones with the wide slots) won't even fit the '65-72 small bolt pattern 10" drum brakes. That's why they made a different 13" wheel in '65 (ones with narrow slots) to work with the new 10" drum brakes available that year. I have seen some aftermarket drums that have more clearance and supposedly would allow the early 13" wheels fit those drums, but, I wouldn't count on it.
 
Found a 78 Cordoba at the yard today with all front parts intact. Will those spindles work for this conversion?
 
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