0psi Oil Pressure and Failed Leakdown

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T56MaxTorq

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Hello all, having a no oil pressure condition with my 360 that has seemed to worry me more and more and need a little guidance on what to do with the engine as I have multiple problems. This is going to be a long post so please bare with me.

A little history first, bought the car a little over a year ago and it has always had low oil pressure at idle, about 10 or so psi. While driving, pressure ranges from 30-40 psi. I had 20w50 in it. #2 intake lobe went flat from a bad rocker/bent pushrod, changed the cam and rocker/pushrod. Cam break in was a full success and it's a MP solid flat tappet cam. Changed the oil and filter several times (I didn't have the time or space to pull the engine and clean everything) Switched to 10w40 for the winter months. Plus a zinc additive.

I have been doing body work on the car and dont drive it around at all, the oil pressure problem scares me. I've only driven it around the block and it will build oil pressure (about 30-40psi) while driving only. Pressure drops off to 0 while still. I've always thought it was the gauge because the gauge really jumps to 30 when driving. I've swapped gauges and it's accurate.

I don't know what's going in there but I feel I should pull the engine and change the pump and main bearings.

Onto the other problem, recently pulled a valve cover and find a milky white sludge all under it. Only the cover is milky. The oil doesn't look like a milkshake, it looks normal. Unsure if it's just from the short running times from just pulling the car in and out of the garage for body work. Ran a compression test and all cylinders are very good (135-140psi) for this altitude and a 69 degree IVC. Ran a compression leakdown test and it failed every cylinder, 20-40% leakage. Air escaping from the oil breather. Not sure if I performed the leakdown test correctly. First, engine was not hot when it should have been. Second, my leakdown tester supplies air to the cylinder at about 40psi, this is where the second gauge zeros out and then I disconnect/reconnect the hose from the cylinder to the gauges. Majority of cylinders leak down 40%. Shouldn't the initial pressure be a lot higher?? If I crank the first gauge pressure to say..50 psi, the second gauge pegs out and I can't get an accurate percentage of leakdown.

My goal, as optimistic as it may be would be to keep the engine running for the body work, that's a real luxury. And to have normal oil pressures, and run the engine til it's dead while I build an engine from scratch on the side (forged pistons, eddy heads, the works) This thing runs great though, starts every time and has good power, I just don't understand these problems, they should have killed any motor by now, especially with this high lift cam. I know this is a lot of info and I appreciate any and all suggestions, thank you.
 
so you have two separate issues... oil pressure, which can range from a bad pressure relif spring to worn out bearings, or a forgotten oil galley plug on install...

as for the milky you said the answer... you only drive it a little bit and shut it off... the engine isn't getting hot enough to boil the water out... then you run the engine and then shut if off, it cools, when it cools it sucks air from out side which contains moister (unless your here in AZ where our high right now is <10% lol... anyways... i think a long drive will take care of that...

but check your plugs and coolant level in the radiator... see if it drops after every time you take it out...
 
Quick replies, thank you!

I didn't mention but I have a analog oil pressure gauge and tried a different analog gauge. I was so excited when I changed out the copper supply line, the PO damaged the flaring where it connects to the block. I thought this was the root cause but sadly it didn't fix anything. I even rigged a clear line going to a gauge to see what was going on and it doesn't fill with oil unless I really rev this thing. Pressure is still 0 unless I drive it.

Is the pressure relief spring in the oil pump? If I end up changing the pump and bearings, should I use a HV or stock oil pump?

The plugs are dark, I'm guessing from short running times.

As for the coolant level, I have noticed it decreasing when I used to drive it around. But I chocked it up to installing the heater core lines, they were previously bypassed. During the leakdown, I didn't notice bubbles in the radiator. I'm still cautious because I added a lot of coolant a while after I hooked up the heater.
 
PO rebuild the engine? Might have forgotten the plug in the main oil galley. Also if a lifter comes out of the rh oil galley pressure will be low as well.
 
The PO did rebuild the engine. Can this oil galley plug be seen without tearing the engine out? Or is this the plug that is on the aft side of the engine, below the distributor, covered up by the transmission?

Dartman, do you mean that my cam may be the problem? Where the cam is pushing the lifter above the oil port that lubes the lifters and pressure is bleeding out from there? All lifters/pushrods/rockers are installed and functioning. If I run the engine with the valve covers off maybe I can find a smoking gun if there is a giant amount of oil bleeding from somewhere? The cam's lift is .528
 
My next step would be pull the pan & look at the Oil pump screen. (May be clogged) Next I would try a Known good Oil pump. Other than that, May be time to rebuild it or do as you said and swap it out after finishing up the body work. I'm sure you'll get some more/better advice.
 
Quick replies, thank you!


Is the pressure relief spring in the oil pump? If I end up changing the pump and bearings, should I use a HV or stock oil pump?

on a SB im not sure but i believe it is... as for which pump unless your racing it i would run a stock one...

The plugs are dark, I'm guessing from short running times.

this is good... as if you were sucking water they would be clean like OOTB...

As for the coolant level, I have noticed it decreasing when I used to drive it around. But I chocked it up to installing the heater core lines, they were previously bypassed. During the leakdown, I didn't notice bubbles in the radiator. I'm still cautious because I added a lot of coolant a while after I hooked up the heater.

ok well this makes me think that water is going somewhere... not good... you may want to pull the heads and check the chambers... if they are clean (which by your plug readings wont be)...



at this point it might be easiest to pull the engine, and just give it a once over, no machining or even bearings... just plasti-gage the mains and rods, install a new oil pump after looking the old one over, and a complete gasket set... looking at a hundred bucks and time... of course as long as your comfortable in doing Internal Engine stuff...
 
The oil pressure relief spring is in the pump housing, you must remove the pan to access it. If this valve were stuck open that would explain low oil pressure at idle, classic symptom. Also, some new replacement pumps have had burs or casting flash which has caused this.

Short run times will make the plugs dark, also depending on the carb, it's OOTB jetting will be rich for your elevation at C Springs. A big cam which causes the power valve or metering rods to be in the rich mode at idle or cruise will cause this too.

A .528 lift cam should not unport the lifter galley assuming it's the MP cam and MP lifters. Bolts right in, works fine, doesn't make much low end torque.

You can see the plug at the rear of the right hand oil galley with the distributor removed. You will probably need to use a mirror with the engine in the car. I'd be surprised if you could make 30 PSI without the plug.

40 PSI initial pressure for leakdown? Are you using an aviation style tester or a Harbor Freight cheapie. Exactly how "rebuilt" was this engine, and how many miles since?

The white stuff in the valve cover is from the short run times. Once you get the pressure issue fixed and run the engine long enough to cook the oil, this will go away.

Coolant loss could be a small internal leak. The Auto Skills shop on base should have a pressure tester, use that. The heater core and hoses together will take 2-3 quarts to fill.
 
Coolant and water will sink to the bottom so Sometimes it's a real easy check to just crack open the Oil pan drain plug and capture what comes out at first. Just a cupful or so. That'll at least ease your mind on that part of it. I still say Pop a Good oil pump in it and go from there. Also check for any Kinks in that copper line to your oil pressure gauge.
 
Thanks for all the helpful ideas guys! I'll be pulling the engine soon enough and checking clearances and installing a new pump and probably the bearings for good measure.

Before I pull it I'll run a coolant Pressure test, I have a tester luckily. Didnt even think about using it haha. Unfortunatly they closed our auto hobby shop last month and Ft. Carson's is a nightmare. I'm using a pretty good looking leakdown tester. It seems of good quality, aluminum block with 2 gauges, quick disconnects. I go tdy for a week so maybe I'll post a pic of it in action when I get back. Everything ive read says 20% leakage and your engine is toast. I'm reading 40% and she runs good with a good compression test..I must be doing something wrong.

The motor has apparently 20k on it. Rebuilt some 10 years ago is what the PO said, had a .030 overbore, .010 cut crank, rebuilt x heads. Carb is a Holley 750, very old style, I just rebuilt it. I think it has #68 jets and a 6"HG power valve and my cam makes 8-9" at idle in gear. This is what Holley suggest, 2" under your idle vacuum. Also has a power valve saver installed. Plugs were all black, nothing was shiny, not even the piston tops.

I'll check the oil for water/contamination before I pull the engine.

Thanks again guys! Also, always a warm feeling seeing a fellow 130 maintainer on here!
 
You can send a sample of the oil to a lab and they can tell you a whole bunch about what is happening in there.
 
Here's a little update. Took the car out around the block a couple times to get it warmed up and oil pressure was just shy of 40 psi. Letting the car idle in the garage, warmed up it was sitting just below 20. As soon as I put it in gear and the rpms drop from 1000 to 800, the oil pressure slowly bleeds down to 0. If I rev it up, it struggles to get oil pressure back to at least 10. Hopefully a new pump and some bearings will fix it up, it's worth a shot.

Ran a leakdown on #1 cyl (previously had 40% leakdown.) This time it was warm after the ride. I cranked the high pressure gauge to 100 and connected the hose to the cyl and it read about 9 psi drop. Noticed a leak in the hose, calmed that down a bit and we're reading about 5-6 psi drop from 100 so that is a real plus!

Final questions: How do I know what size bearings to order when I have it torn down? And what clearance do you guys suggest??
 
Have a coolant recovery bottle ? Oil in it ? Intake gaskets can let water in the oil but not much oil in the water. Head gaskets let water in the oil and can put oil in the water too.
The air bubbles in the radiator from the leak down tester isn't a good sign.
If the oil pump makes 50 psi at any time its relief valve isn't the problem.
A partially clogged screen may be the problem.
My guess is water has washed out main bearings and cam bearings.
 
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