1964 Dart seat belts

[Doug.S]

So my 64 Dart 4 door has Anchor brand front seat belts and only one Anchor brand rear seat belt. As I see it, the front seat belts are in the correct factory installed holes in the floor and maybe replaced the factory originals. I will be installing my new front seat belts in the same mounting positions.
The rear seat has me a bit more confused...The one rear seat belt that is currently installed is literally bolted through a small rubber floor plug with a big washer on both sides of the rubber plug. Wow, whoever did this must have been more interested in the look and not the function of a rear seat belt.
So I found this paragraph in the owners manual that says the rear floor is marked in exact locations to drill holes for rear seat belt installation. Does anyone know the location of these holes? I have the interior completely out of the car and I don't see any places on the rear floor that look like marks for seat belt installation.
Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[slantsixdan]

Get under the car and you should fairly easily find the anchorage reinforcement plates where lap belts would get installed for the rear seats.

Most of the factory belts at that time were made by Pontonier, but nothing stopped dealerships from buying whatever random brand of seatbelt they could get cheaper than the ones available through the Chrysler parts system.

Spend some time and thought on getting your seatbelts right: lap belts are worthless and 4-point harnesses are very dangerous. Bunch of belt upgrade info and links in this post (read past the non-belt-related stuff at the top).

 

[Big_John]

Get under the car and you should fairly easily find the anchorage reinforcement plates where lap belts would get installed for the rear seats.

On my '65 Barracuda, there are no reinforcement plates on the rear floor.

My car had the optional rear belts, listed on the broadcast sheet. In the rear, there was an eye bolt that passes through the floor and a large domed washer. The end of the belt is a scissors arrangement that can be removed fairly easily. All my belts are original to the car with the date tags etc. It's my understanding that the reinforcement plates didn't come to later, although I don't know when. My car was an early build, October 1964, California built.

 

[BillGrissom]

I feel unsafe without a shoulder-belt, especially with the solid steering shaft which can act like a pike in an accident. I got newish seats fairly cheap - Sebring w/ integral belts ($100/pr) for my 1965 Dart and Cobra Convertible w/ shoulder strap holder ($50/pr) for my 64 Valiant Conv. Still in-work a bit.

 

[macman340]

My 64 Dart convertible this shot shows the anchors that are on each side bolted thru the floor near the wheel well!

 

[Nigel Hely]

My 1964 Dart hardtop had front lap-only seat belts WITH reinforcement plates. As per the original post, I located the marks in the rear floor then fabricated my own replica plates as per the front and welded them in. The only variation was to fit a pair of shoulder mounts under the rear parcel tray because with a young child they have to travel in lap/sash seat belts (Australia). It all looks 100% factory and passed registration inspection first go!

 

[JoeDartGT]

My 1964 Dart hardtop had front lap-only seat belts WITH reinforcement plates. As per the original post, I located the marks in the rear floor then fabricated my own replica plates as per the front and welded them in. The only variation was to fit a pair of shoulder mounts under the rear parcel tray because with a young child they have to travel in lap/sash seat belts (Australia). It all looks 100% factory and passed registration inspection first go!

View attachment 1715158477

What did you do for front shoulder belt mounting? What about the front seats that do not lock in the upright position?

 

[reddog]

I feel unsafe without a shoulder-belt, especially with the solid steering shaft which can act like a pike in an accident. I got newish seats fairly cheap - Sebring w/ integral belts ($100/pr) for my 1965 Dart and Cobra Convertible w/ shoulder strap holder ($50/pr) for my 64 Valiant Conv. Still in-work a bit.

I am looking to replace the seats in my 63. Would you have a picture handy on what you installed in your 64? Thanks

 

[Nigel Hely]

What did you do for front shoulder belt mounting? What about the front seats that do not lock in the upright position?

Hi Joe,
Some answers to questions. I am in Australia, so not sure if some of our safety legislation translates across to you guys...

1. Front belts are lap-only, for these reasons:
When I had the hood lining out, I investigated welding plates into the roof frame (rails) but there was absolutely no easy way of getting the plates in there. Plan B was to fit plates into the inside of rear quarter panels above, and forward of the interior trim (hardtop). Disadvantage is they are lower than your shoulder, and would keep falling down to your elbow, like my mates Holden Monaro, BAD IDEA! Both these modifications would need to be signed off by an engineer, so I left it as per original, but brand new (Certified) seat belts were fitted.

2. Rear belts are lap-sash, which was necessary because our child is an age where they MUST ride in lap-sash belts or child restraint. I must admit to being a bit cheeky and replicating the factory (front) floor anchors and welding them in, same for parcel tray. Must have looked great, because the Registration Examiner never said a word...LOL

3. The seats do not lock, they have no provision to lock, and if I modified them I would need to get those modifications signed off by an engineer, so they are as per original.

Hope this helps...

 

[JoeDartGT]

Hi Joe,
Some answers to questions. I am in Australia, so not sure if some of our safety legislation translates across to you guys...

1. Front belts are lap-only, for these reasons:
When I had the hood lining out, I investigated welding plates into the roof frame (rails) but there was absolutely no easy way of getting the plates in there. Plan B was to fit plates into the inside of rear quarter panels above, and forward of the interior trim (hardtop). Disadvantage is they are lower than your shoulder, and would keep falling down to your elbow, like my mates Holden Monaro, BAD IDEA! Both these modifications would need to be signed off by an engineer, so I left it as per original, but brand new (Certified) seat belts were fitted.

2. Rear belts are lap-sash, which was necessary because our child is an age where they MUST ride in lap-sash belts or child restraint. I must admit to being a bit cheeky and replicating the factory (front) floor anchors and welding them in, same for parcel tray. Must have looked great, because the Registration Examiner never said a word...LOL

3. The seats do not lock, they have no provision to lock, and if I modified them I would need to get those modifications signed off by an engineer, so they are as per original.

Hope this helps...

Thanks for the reply! Ironically here in rule heavy CA, we have absolutely NO safety inspections or safety regulations on registration for older cars/trucks. Simply amazing. They regulate and TAX the F out of us. All they care about is paying them! I can drive any rust riddled crumbling seatbeltless old hulk, but if it's '75 or newer that damn smog crap better be working. Morons.

I found that Wesco Performance has a solution if you weld in a support plate to the "B" piller just behind the door below the window opening. I just want to confirm that this will be safe enough. I've heard a varing opinion about the seat back. If you are in a secured 3 point over the shoulder belt, how could the seat move forward? The belt is holding you firmly back in tension...if you don't have the retractables that is. I want to warn people to NOT USE the clamshell style (https://www.wescoperformance.com/ll60.htm) belt they show!

Sadly, my 1962 VW double cab had those as original or retrofit lap belts and my wife was hit hard in an intersection and those came unclasped resulting in her being ejected from the truck. Quadriplegia is, to put it mildly, a life changer for everyone involved. This is why I'm being so picky about this installation. This is my son Joe's car just so you understand.

Most likely your solution was safer than the factory anchors. Well done! Again, thanks for the comments.

 

[Nigel Hely]

Thanks for the reply! Ironically here in rule heavy CA, we have absolutely NO safety inspections or safety regulations on registration for older cars/trucks. Simply amazing. They regulate and TAX the F out of us. All they care about is paying them! I can drive any rust riddled crumbling seatbeltless old hulk, but if it's '75 or newer that damn smog crap better be working. Morons.

I found that Wesco Performance has a solution if you weld in a support plate to the "B" piller just behind the door below the window opening. I just want to confirm that this will be safe enough. I've heard a varing opinion about the seat back. If you are in a secured 3 point over the shoulder belt, how could the seat move forward? The belt is holding you firmly back in tension...if you don't have the retractables that is. I want to warn people to NOT USE the clamshell style (https://www.wescoperformance.com/ll60.htm) belt they show!View attachment 1715201030
Sadly, my 1962 VW double cab had those as original or retrofit lap belts and my wife was hit hard in an intersection and those came unclasped resulting in her being ejected from the truck. Quadriplegia is, to put it mildly, a life changer for everyone involved. This is why I'm being so picky about this installation. This is my son Joe's car just so you understand.View attachment 1715201029

Most likely your solution was safer than the factory anchors. Well done! Again, thanks for the comments.

View attachment 1715201028

Hi Joe,
I understand perfectly, and you are making the right choices...
And your son's son's car looks like a great project, good luck!
Nigel