1965 Dodge Dart front blinkers and turn signal switch.

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Bills65Dart

Bills65Dart

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Hi,

I have come across something very peculiar on my car. I am not sure I even believe it myself.

I am trying to replace the light bulb for the front blinkers and parking light. Originally a 1034 lamp, now it is an 1157 bulb.

The problem is that I can stick it in, but not turn it. I have tried and tried, over and over again, until I got a better light and looked inside the socket. The grooves that goes inward seems to be fine, but the locking grooves are in the same position. I mean, for an 1034/1157 bulb one pin is at the end of the lamp, while the other pin is further up. But the locking grooves are at an equal distance in the socket.

I do not even believe my own eyes in this. It should be impossible.

Has anyone come across this issue before ?


Bill
 
Bills65Dart said:
Hi,

I have come across something very peculiar on my car. I am not sure I even believe it myself.

I am trying to replace the light bulb for the front blinkers and parking light. Originally a 1034 lamp, now it is an 1157 bulb.

The problem is that I can stick it in, but not turn it. I have tried and tried, over and over again, until I got a better light and looked inside the socket. The grooves that goes inward seems to be fine, but the locking grooves are in the same position. I mean, for an 1034/1157 bulb one pin is at the end of the lamp, while the other pin is further up. But the locking grooves are at an equal distance in the socket.

I do not even believe my own eyes in this. It should be impossible.

Has anyone come across this issue before ?


Bill
Click to expand...

Well, I have fixed it. The odd thing is that it is so difficult to see how far in the two locking grooves are, and one are obviously further in than the other. The issue was that I could not push the lamp deep enough to turn it around. WD 40 and some in and out with the bulb fixed it.

However, it did not fix the problem that none of the front blinkers works. So, I guess I have to wait for the shop manual and see if the schematics are there. If not I will troubleshoot it without the manual.
 
Well, this was a morecomplicated matter than I first anticipated. The left parking light, and left turn signal is now working. It was the bulb socket that was a bit corroded and did not give proper grounding. But, the right turn signal, that is a whole different matter. I have taken a wire from the battery to the connector on the inner right fender, and the light is steady on. Moved the wire to the connector through the cowl, on the engine side, and full light. Then moved it inside, still light, and all the way to the connector on the steering column. Got of the GT style stupid steering wheel (had to get a number two puller for that, with 3 bolts), and measured from the red wire that goes in to the switch, and then on the light green wire, that is for the left side, and when the switch is operated the peeper in the multimeter beeps, and when I move the switch to the right hand side turn signal the connection comes to that side. But, when put together, the voltage disappears to the right hand side, but is there on the left hand side turn signals. To the rear turn signals it is fine on both sides. I tried to find a way to open the turn signal switch, but did not have any success with that. So, does that mean I am ordering a brand new for example OER MD2138 ?

Bill
 
I have a similar problem.

1964 Valiant convertible. There is a light attached to the bottom lip of the dash above the front passenger foot well.
A new replacement bulb just will NOT go in the socket. I can't remember the number of the bulb at the moment.

Is the problem the cheap Asian-sourced bulbs?
 
KosmicKuda said:
I have a similar problem.

1964 Valiant convertible. There is a light attached to the bottom lip of the dash above the front passenger foot well.
A new replacement bulb just will NOT go in the socket. I can't remember the number of the bulb at the moment.

Is the problem the cheap Asian-sourced bulbs?
Click to expand...

I don't know what bulb it is, but in my case the plate in the bottom of the socket feels like it goes far in, and it sort of does too in a sense, but just not enough. It was like it was corrosion or whatever in there that I don't see. WD 40 is obviously a good spray for electric parts because after a while now, in and out with the bulb, it is easier and easier to get the bulb in.

But, now I come to think of something I experienced long time ago. The 1157 bulb has two filaments in it, and has to be turned a certain way so you get the small wattage filament on the park or tail light, and the big one on the turn signal. But, those bulbs that has only one filament in, and one tip or whatever you call it in the bottom of the bulb, they can be put any way you like. And therefore the two small pins are placed opposite of each other so it does not matter which way you put the bulb in. And here is where my memory comes in, because in Norway I remember we had one such bulbs that had only one filament, but had the pins staggered like the 1157 bulb, to a lot of frustration for people. But, some cars demanded that bulb. Maybe that is the case for you.


Bill
 
You are likely overthinking this and likely your measurement is sending you down the wrong path. You can not effectively troubleshoot using resistance measurements, most of the time, because of bad connections, which come and go.

I use a "mix" of tools. One is an old tail/ stop lamp with pigtails. This is useful for a lot of stuff. When using it as a test lamp, it LOADS the circuit, so that if the circuit has bad connections, it will not light, unlike your meter which draws a tiny amount of current, and which often flows through the bad connection with no load

The circuit for the signals is quite easy The "functional path" is:

From the switched fusebox buss and fuse, to the flasher, and from the flasher to the turn signal switch. The switch connects the various circuits and feeds flasher power out to whichever lamps is selected. There is one connector for the front lamps right at the column, and then through the bulkhead, connector, and then to the front lamps.

THE DASH INDICATOR lamps "Y" off from the column connector, so if you have power there and the dash lamp works, it is the circuit between the bulkhead connector and the socket that is bad.

GROUNDS can really screw you up. Some sockets have a separate pigtail ground and if mounted in the grille, GET A POOR GROUND. Sometimes you should solder a grounding pigtail right to the lamp socket and run that to the body Obviously, rust/ corrosion in the socket or lamp itself is an issue

THE SOCKET PIGTAIL. These can screw with you because the "key" can wear or break, or if it's been replaced, may not be correct to hold the pigtail in alignment. In other words, the contacts are not aligned to the lamp, or are in such position to cross connect

LAMPS Lamps can have weird intermittent and act almost like a flasher, with the filamanet making and breaking. IF THE GROUND to the shell right in the lamp is broken or "iffy" this can drive you nuts. Always have/ try more than one bulb!! The filaments can "cross connect" internally, EG when you turn on the tail lights, one side will light brighter because the filaments are interconnected. When you operate the signal, both sides will flash

This is all simple stuff but can screw with your mind.


Last you can download an aftermarket diagram from MyMopar. These are not as detailed as the factory diagrams. You can also download SOME YEARS of the factory manual there, all free. Some of the manuals there came from the guys right here
 
67Dart273 said:
You are likely overthinking this and likely your measurement is sending you down the wrong path. You can not effectively troubleshoot using resistance measurements, most of the time, because of bad connections, which come and go.

I use a "mix" of tools. One is an old tail/ stop lamp with pigtails. This is useful for a lot of stuff. When using it as a test lamp, it LOADS the circuit, so that if the circuit has bad connections, it will not light, unlike your meter which draws a tiny amount of current, and which often flows through the bad connection with no load

The circuit for the signals is quite easy The "functional path" is:

From the switched fusebox buss and fuse, to the flasher, and from the flasher to the turn signal switch. The switch connects the various circuits and feeds flasher power out to whichever lamps is selected. There is one connector for the front lamps right at the column, and then through the bulkhead, connector, and then to the front lamps.

THE DASH INDICATOR lamps "Y" off from the column connector, so if you have power there and the dash lamp works, it is the circuit between the bulkhead connector and the socket that is bad.

GROUNDS can really screw you up. Some sockets have a separate pigtail ground and if mounted in the grille, GET A POOR GROUND. Sometimes you should solder a grounding pigtail right to the lamp socket and run that to the body Obviously, rust/ corrosion in the socket or lamp itself is an issue

THE SOCKET PIGTAIL. These can screw with you because the "key" can wear or break, or if it's been replaced, may not be correct to hold the pigtail in alignment. In other words, the contacts are not aligned to the lamp, or are in such position to cross connect

LAMPS Lamps can have weird intermittent and act almost like a flasher, with the filamanet making and breaking. IF THE GROUND to the shell right in the lamp is broken or "iffy" this can drive you nuts. Always have/ try more than one bulb!! The filaments can "cross connect" internally, EG when you turn on the tail lights, one side will light brighter because the filaments are interconnected. When you operate the signal, both sides will flash

This is all simple stuff but can screw with your mind.


Last you can download an aftermarket diagram from MyMopar. These are not as detailed as the factory diagrams. You can also download SOME YEARS of the factory manual there, all free. Some of the manuals there came from the guys right here
Click to expand...


Thank you for your time.

Waiting for parts, hopefully come today.


Bill
 
Last edited:
Although I am self-interested in saying so, it remains true: you can throw endless money and time (and knuckle-blood) at poor-quality Chinese switches that can sorta be made to fit and mostly work until they break...or you can buy the good, correct switch and do the job once and correctly.

As for cruddy old sockets and related faults: repair information is here.
 
Bills65Dart said:
Thank you for your time.

Waiting for parts, hopefully come today.


Bill
Click to expand...

Ok, here is a bit about the progress. I did not realize several more people had replied here, well, now I have read. Anyway, I bought a switch from OCPNW, Old Cart Parts NW I think it stands for. Sorry Dan, I had already ordered it when you chimed in. Anyway, this part looks very much like the one you have 3 pics of above.

By the way, just so people does not come up with the idea of telling me about volt and amps and whatever else and waste time on that, my profession is a combination of mechanical and electrical, industrial automation is my specialty, repaired everything from fishing boats to computer controlled machinery in a food factory. I have education in both fields, 9 years together. Old Ferguson farm tractors and American cars is a hobby since before military, Ford cars mostly, but to a certain degree at least, a car is a car, I mean, there are some basics shared. Details might be different, very different too.

So, the turn signal switch came, and I could start playing, I broke off the cancelling cam, so I could get into the switch itself. Took it partly apart, and used sand paper on the contact points, put it back together, and the switch works like it did before it even rolled off the assembly line. Now, the cancelling cam had the tabs broken off, so it was maybe time to replace that instead of replacing the entire switch. I got one from O'Raley's... ha ha, it is made by Standard, and look fine. Did not look close enough, put it back together, and the arm became hard to move. Backed off the bolt, and took it off. What was wrong. Well, the thickness of the plastic where the bolt is holding it to the lever is much thicker than the original one, so the bolt press the plastic too hard down to the switch itself before it stops in the metal. So, put it back together and used Loctite 242 on the threads, and tightened it lightly and let it be with that. The fact that the plastic was thicker is not such a bad idea in itself, because the old one cracked just there because the material was too thin.
More about that in a few.

Since I do not have the original steering wheel I got into more trouble. I put the steering wheel back on, and since the base with the splines is of aluminum it expands when the big nut is tightened and get further down on the steering shaft. In addition, those who designed the contraption (read: lousy steering wheel), found it necessary to have the copper disk for the horn roller so wide that it also cover the bolt for the turn signal handle. So, when I turn the steering wheel I am either waking up the entire neighborhood, or make them go to bed and drag the comforter over their heads.
Now, if Standard had made the cancelling cam as per the book, this would not have been an issue, but they chose to make it a little different. And since the steering wheel also is "different", it is just a mess.
Those who have made the brand new switch has gone even further than Standard Motor Products, so if I had used that, the horn would have been constantly on, and not like now, that is on only when I lean a little on the wheel.

I have not decided what to do yet, it might be, either take the cancelling cam off, and grind off some material so the bolt gets further down. Or, wait until I have the original steering wheel restored and in place.


Bill
 
Picture of old and new Cancelling Cam. Note the difference where the bolt sits, making the head of the bolt sit higher up with the new Cancelling Cam compared to the old one. Old one I assume is stock, while the new one is a cam from Standard Motor Products, part # TW78C, Ecatalog

Bill

1965-Dodge-Dart-Cancelling-Cam-a.jpg
 
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