1965 Valiant front end rebuild

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scott_s

scott_s

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While I had my '65 at the shop getting the brakes sorted, I asked them to give me an inventory of front end components that needed work. As I expected, it needs pretty much everything.

- all ball joints
- inner and outer tie rod ends
- pitman arm and idler arm (I'm assuming he meant the bushings? Or do you just replace the whole assembly on these cars?)
- radius rod bushings

I figured I'd start collecting parts and knowledge, so I got on FOBA last night and now I'm even more confused. This is my first A-Body and there are a lot of intricacies I still haven't learned. I know I have the small bolt pattern and 9" drums. How do I know which ball joints to get? I see mention of "big ball joint" and "small ball joint" cars.
I was advised to stick with Mopar, Moog or Dorman.

I would really like some help making sure I'm getting the correct parts. Are there any kits available I should be looking at? Anything specifically to stay away from?
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Moog can be hit or miss these days, as with everything. I’d buy a kit, from a reputable dealer, like PST and lean on them if any warranty issues pop up. We get 10% off as FABO members and I’ve had great success with their stuff.

You need small ball joints, the SBP and small BJ were used until ‘72 on A Bodies.
 
For a car that's not a daily driver and certainly isn't set up for performance, is it worth the extra $200 for the Super kit?
 
two small balljoints
two standard lower balljoints
lower arm bushes the same across all A Bodies
Upper arm bushes the same across all A bodies
strut rod radius rod bushes. i'd just go with the moog problem solvers and follow their instructions this is the 4 picce bush 2 rubbers 2 big washers per rod
top bump stop same across all A bodies
Bottom bump stop same
pitman and idler will be model and year specific (you can get urethane bushes from Australia if you want to try to recon)
track rod sleeves will be ok but the ends are just any A body

Or buy a kit

i didn't and ended up spending less

OR
get the grease gun out and run as much cheap grease through all the joints as you are happy to waste then change them with the good stuff....a dry joint and a worn joint are not necessarily the same thing one eventually leads to the other BUT

its the lower balljoints and the upper arm and lower arm bushes that tend to ware out
but with no grease all of the joints will seem to be worn out

Dave
 
The last set of lower ball joints I got from NAPA were Moog. They didn't last 5000 miles. They used to be good parts. Sadly they aren't anymore.
 
Hellrats said:
The last set of lower ball joints I got from NAPA were Moog. They didn't last 5000 miles. They used to be good parts. Sadly they aren't anymore.
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I used to spend so much time piecing together Moog stuff, not worth it anymore.
 
Typically the parts that wear are the lower ball joints, pitman arm, idler arm, upper control arm bushings, lower control arm bushings, strut rod bushings, the outer tie rod ends and all the seals. MOOG used to be the end all, not sure what is best anymore.
 
I bought 2 Moog kits for both my Darts 10 years ago on Ebay. Haven't had any issues yet. I don't drive a lot. I see they are not available on Ebay anymore. As said they are hit or miss now. PST gets my vote.
 
Scott
I have bought the kits from ebay with no trouble (check the reviews before you pick an ebay vendor) but generally when a shop does the work they want you to use their parts. The way shop rates are the labor is what will hurt. I just had ball joints and tie rod ends replaced last year on the 65 Barracuda in my Avatar photo and new rubber put on at a local small-town shop. WOW what a difference in ride and steering. I have known and worked with the two brothers that own the shop for around 40 years. Honest and quality work.
 
scott_s said:
For a car that's not a daily driver and certainly isn't set up for performance, is it worth the extra $200 for the Super kit?
Click to expand...
No, but, you may want to get the offset upper control arm bushings for more caster adjustment. You have the small diameter upper ball joints. Get the idler and pitman arm as complete units. I would recommend adding a front sway bar and a good quality set of shocks too. It can make a huge difference in how the car will handle without having to get crazy with high performance aftermarket parts. Some stiffer torsion bars is also a great upgrade if your budget can handle it.
 
with the lowers and uppers i think it depends a bit on the grease

originally had the mopar long strand multi-mileage stuff (sodium or barium based stuff)
i have a small quantity left in my gun but i can't get any more

the only thing similar was Texaco/Chevron Marfac but i never worked out which one, there are 2 or 3 grades.
you can still buy marfac but only in huge drums. you have to borrow a cup from your local train or bus depot...

hence if the manufacturers follow the standard design in all but the grease maybe that's why they wear out .

is the grease in them now just for transport/protection. is it the stuff they put in their track rods ends which these days are probably nylon/plastic lined?

the equivalent of wheel bearing grease is no good.
its designed to let ball bearings or rollers roll, rather than skid and flat spot, and we need a grease that promotes skid/slide rather than one that guards against it.

if the joints where modern plastic socket joints then this isn't an issue. but i don't think they are, i think they still follow the 1950s/60s metal ball in metal socket with crimped in metal tension plate on the back type design. i.e you can not pull the ball out the front.

king pin/steering swivel grease might work.... again its got different properties from bearing grease.

i.e does the current manufacturer of top and bottom balljoints for mopars set us up to fail from day 1 by using the wrong grease at the point of manufacture because that's what they use in every other product line they make.. $600 drums of MARFAC for 1 product line probably makes no economic sense

dunno... just wiffle waffle, but new joints, i'd fill with the correct grease, if i could get it

Dave
 
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If you use the upper control arm offset bushing (which I did) The most forward bushing should face out. The rearward should face in.
 
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