1965 Valiant slant-6 225 carburator

[J Glenn]

I now have a 1965 Valiant with a 225. It has a two-barrel motorcraft 2100 carb or something on it. My question is: what carburetor would have been stock. (Obviously the engine is FAR from stock but I'd like to educate myself a bit here.)

 

[slantsixdan]

Stock would have been a 1-barrel carb, either a Carter BBS or a Holley 1920 (depending on what came to hand when that particular engine was being assembled at that plant on that day at that hour and minute).

The Motorcraft 2100 is a very good carburetor, and if it's done right this swap onto a Slant-6 can work very well. "Done right" means the carburetor is selected properly for size (1.08" venturi is the best pick) and it's mounted on an intake manifold correctly configured to accept it—either a modified stock manifold or a 4bbl intake with a 2bbl adaptor plate—not a cheezymatic 2bbl-to-1bbl "adaptor".

 

[BillGrissom]

I think a 1965 slant would have the throttle input as a rotating rod, instead of a cable. At least my 1964 225 does. My 1965 has a throttle cable, but I think only on the V-8 engines like it. The carburetors for the rotating rod are special. But, your 2 bbl is much preferred if they used the late 1970's - 80's "Super Six" intake and components.

 

[J Glenn]

good info guys! I'll be poking around in the near future... and take some pictures. The thing runs *great* at WOT, but doesn't idle at all. The carb is modified and doesn't have a choke... I'm thinking that might have been done for hood clearance, but i don't actually know. My buddy that owned it passed away, so i can't just ask about it: (

 

[slantsixdan]

No idle is a fairly generic carburetor problem; you might want to try this technique for openers and see where it gets you.

I can't think of a good reason why a choke would make the difference between the hood closing or not closing (though you've got me wondering what's present for an air cleaner!). And "the carburetor is modified" makes my beard stand on end. Fortunately there's a guy who specialises in 2100s, including modifying them for non-spec applications; see here. He can probably help you positively ID your carb and sort out whatever problems and improper-conversion issues you're having. If the carb's configured to have a built-in automatic choke (the kind with the round black bakelite housing and the heat tube) then probably that's why there's no active choke on it: noplace to run the heat tube on a Slant-6 unless you happen to have a particular exhaust manifold used on cars with the throttle anti-ice system (some Canada-spec cars '61-'69 and
all US-spec '69s), which you probably don't. Easy and much more satisfactory fix rather than rigging up a heat tube is to fetch an Electric choke kit for your particular carburetor once the linked specialist has helped you ID it.

You might please post some photos of your present setup, both with and without the air cleaner installed, from a few angles. There's probably stuff additional eyes will spot and be able to point out for you.

(BillGrissom, the '60-'66 A-bodies used the rotating-rod throttle setup except V8 cars (as you mention) and '65-'66 Slant-6 cars with factory A/C got cable-type throttle hookup.)

 

[J Glenn]

A few pictures (including the ID tag, which I cannot decipher).

 

[64conv65hard]

That looks like an old Ford carb like I had on my 69 302 van. But I could be mistaken.

 

[slantsixdan]

Oh, wow. You weren't kidding when you said "no choke"—someone actually removed the choke plate and shaft from this carburetor! :shock: You'll need parts. Also, replace that crusty fuel line pronto. Use fuel injection hose labelled "30R9 Fuel Injection" as described here. On the plus side, it looks like the carb mount/manifold is just fine.

What's it got for an air cleaner?

 

[J Glenn]

so here is my question: is that a motorcraft 2100, 2150 or something else?

i *think* the chop-top is for hood clearance. it has a "normal" big round open air cleaner. (I'm not one for terminology). I'm thinking I'd likey replace it with a "new" (complete)
carb and deal with the clearance issue by using an air cleaner relocation kit (or like a k&n kit) as i think it would have a lower profile.

 

[slantsixdan]

Great googly-moogly…someone sawed off the top of the carburetor. Dass eff dup.

I think you're looking at a new carburetor, fer sher. I don't necessarily think an intact one will be too tall for the hood to close. Get in contact with some of the guys over on slantsix.org who have done this swap and ask them about it. Get in touch with the 2100-expert I linked and ask him for some dimensions (max height...) then make a cardboard template that same height and see how much hood clearance you have. Note that the so-called "performance" air cleaners (open-sides type) often have taller installed heights than the real air cleaner you'd want to run, that is the OE type with thermostatic snorkel.

K&N's pretend air "filters": Not if you like your engine. It's one thing to run K&N filters on a race/competition vehicle that gets an engine rebuild every season. It's quite another to do so on an engine you actually want to keep for awhile. K&Ns will keep out spiders, seashells, small children, and chunks of concrete. Actual dust and grit flies right through 'em and into your engine. See here and here. ("…After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N plugged up nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt…"). That's objective science right there. The idea that real (i.e., pleated paper) air filters are inherently restrictive is a myth fabricated by the K&N people to sell their filter-shaped toys.

 

[J Glenn]

So I figured I'd give an update.... IT RUNS NICE!!!

Carburetor #1: came on the car. Pictures posted earlier. Problems described earlier. Didn't Idle at all. Ran GREAT at WOT;-)

Carburetor #2: I stumbled upon a FREE "Motorcraft 2100" Carb of some sort. I bolted that on (swapping throttle plate shaft & linkage from Carburetor #1) and it ran very well, except it seemed to have a bad accelerator pump. This had a slightly smaller venturi, though both carburetors are stamped 1.08 on the side. They had the same size throttle plates. I think I lost some top-end ooompf, as expected. But now it IDLED nice. For the life of me I could not find the correct rebuild kit for the accelerator pump of this unknown version of the Motorcraft 2100. I even transplanted (parts) of the Carburetor #1's accelerator pump. Never did understand why that didn't work.. but...

Carburetor #3: I decided to spend the $200+ on a remanufactured carb. I read that remanufactured carbs are are not very high quality. There seems to be some truth to that! You get what you pay for. I decided to "pretend" I owned a 1982 Ford Granda 323 V6 with an automatic transmission (similar weight and engine size) and ordered a carb for that car. Bolted that on and it works great. But... the 1.08 stamped on the side of the body (like the other two) but this one had a NOTICEABLY smaller venturi and smaller throttle plates too. I'm wondering if this one is actually 1.08 and Carb #1 & #2 were actually re-manufactured and bored-out. Don't know. I lost more performance the high-end, of course. Also, the throttle linkage was a pain the butt because it was not bolt-on swappable with the old carbs (they updated the castings, etc.)... I'll spare you the details... But that said, it works great.

Now I can focus my attention on all the other parts of the car! (Later might to upgrade to a Holley 390 or something, but there are bigger fish to fry right now.

 

[J Glenn]

Update on the Ford Granada carb on the 1965 Valiant... with a question about vacuum connections.

Referencing the below picture.

A: PCV
Damn, I hate this connection. If I hook it up, it's like bad vacuum leak and the car really hates to idle. If I disconnect it (and cap the vacuum connection on the carb) it runs great. I've tested the one-way valve. And I think the filter-cap thing is ok... I'm wishing the PCV would not open until 1000 RPMs or something... is that a thing? That would solve my issues. Ideas? Opinions?

B: float vent.
Presently I've connected this to the air-cleaner. I was nervous that such a connection would lead to a lean condition because it's a mild vacuum... but I haven't melted anything yet! I did have this routed to a meandering hose (like the carb vents on my snowmobiles). That worked fine, it was just ugly. I notice not difference in performance either way... I think the vacuum on the top-side of the carb is weak enough that it doesn't really matter. (Of course i don't have EGT or an oxygen sensor, so... hope I don't burn down.) Opinions?

C) boost valve
I just connected this to the same vacuum a the vacuum advance. Different size hose, so I used a 'universal' vacuum T-connector. I don't see any issues with this.

D) Just a hose going to the vacuum connection on the Carb

E) Distributor Vacuum Advance
So.... This was *not* hooked up when I bought he car. The connection (D) on the "original" Motorcraft 2100 was capped. I've tried it both connected and disconnected and I really don't notice a difference in performance. (When I disconnected it I obviously capped the corresponding hole in the T-connector.) I'm nervous that it was disconnected for a reason. I'm thinking if it's connected it could mean the timing is advancing too much.) I suppose I should get a timing light on the damn thing... I found the marks on the on the pully... but the marks on the block side are a bit ambiguous so I need to find TDC to be sure that I know what I'm looking at. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[slantsixdan]

A: PCV
Damn, I hate this connection. If I hook it up, it's like bad vacuum leak and the car really hates to idle. If I disconnect it (and cap the vacuum connection on the carb) it runs great. I've tested the one-way valve.

Sounds like it very well might be the wrong PCV valve.

I'm wishing the PCV would not open until 1000 RPMs or something... is that a thing? That would solve my issues.

No, it's not, and no, it wouldn't.

B: float vent.
Presently I've connected this to the air-cleaner.

No. Either take the hose off it and leave it open to atmosphere, or set it up as intended with a canister and purge valve (see here).

C) boost valve

Beg pardon? What "boost valve" are we talking about?

E) Distributor Vacuum Advance
So.... This was *not* hooked up when I bought he car. The connection (D) on the "original" Motorcraft 2100 was capped. I've tried it both connected and disconnected and I really don't notice a difference in performance. (When I disconnected it I obviously capped the corresponding hole in the T-connector.) I'm nervous that it was disconnected for a reason.

Reason being, the guy before you didn't know what the hell he was doing. If he had, he wouldn't have crudely sawn off the top of the carburetor.

I suppose I should get a timing light on the damn thing.

Yes.

I found the marks on the on the pully... but the marks on the block side are a bit ambiguous

Shouldn't be. What are you seeing?

so I need to find TDC

Good idea, since the outer ring member of the crank pulley (which has the marks) can slip relative to the hub, making the marks inaccurate.

 

[J Glenn]

Thanks for the reply, Dan!

Sounds like it very well might be the wrong PCV valve.

Dah... I never even thought of that! I'll look into it.

Sounds like it very well might be the wrong PCV valve.
No. Either take the hose off it and leave it open to atmosphere, or set it up as intended with a canister and purge valve (see here).

I just didn't like it not being filtered, but I decided instead to vent it to the atmosphere with a small engine fuel filter (it's just a screen). That works well.

Sounds like it very well might be the wrong PCV valve.
Beg pardon? What "boost valve" are we talking about?

Haha. Sorry. I mean "power valve" or "enrichment valve".

Sounds like it very well might be the wrong PCV valve.
Reason being, the guy before you didn't know what the hell he was doing. If he had, he wouldn't have crudely sawn off the top of the carburetor.

I actually totally disagree with you on that. I think the guy knew quite well what he was doing, he was just working with what he had. (I picture a guy working at a junk yard piecing the thing together.) The car was REALLY quick with the 'original Motorcraft carburetor', but didn't idle at all. The car was basically set up to do street drags. I probably should timed it before pulling off that 'original' carb. It's not as quick anymore.