1967 383 ~ "Which Came First" ~ The Barracuda or Dart GTS

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69 Cuda 440

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1967 ~ 383 Big-Block in the A-Body

Which A-Body got the '1st' 383 Big-Block.

Mr. Norm's {Norm Krause} Grand-Spaulding Dodge in Chicago made the claim that
they were the '1st' to do it.

But, Plymouth was working on this engine installation back in early September 1966
for the newly designed 1967 Barracuda which was scheduled for release in mid-November 1966,
 
Don't know the answer and I'm interested in finding out. But I do remember an article in Car Craft (?) back then that showed how Arlen Vanke dropped one in a 67 cuda.
 
Popular Hot Rodding [December 1966]

Tests the 1967 Barracuda '383'

mLeGhyZTN0op4uvgO0BYVug.jpg
 
I still work for Mr. Norm and he does know that Plymouth had the 383 Barracuda first and that Dodge was not going to offer it's own model. He put together the Dart and brought it to the powers-that-be in Detroit and told them he needed the car to be built, and it was! I don't ever recall him claiming that he did "it" first.
 
HemiSSDart said:
I still work for Mr. Norm and he does know that Plymouth had the 383 Barracuda first and that Dodge was not going to offer it's own model. He put together the Dart and brought it to the powers-that-be in Detroit and told them he needed the car to be built, and it was! I don't ever recall him claiming that he did "it" first.
Click to expand...

I believe it was 'assumed' that it was Mr. Norm's who first put a 383 in an A-Body.

But, Chrysler wanted it to be for the 1967 Plymouth Barracuda 'only', or at least when they first came out.

From what I found, Dodge was going to release the Dart GTS 383 in 'late' mid-year 1967 anyway.
 
From what I have been able to find out from information gathered. The Barracuda in 67 didn't start getting the 383 until around March of 67. Even speaking to the original owner of my car he said he special ordered it in December of 66 and took delivery in April 67. Seems like a long time to wait yikes, but the documentation supports what he says SPD 3-28-67. Out of the 50 or so samples I have documented vin/fender tag they really seem to have been "batched" in March/April.
 
I have a original 1967 Dodge Data Book.

This book was used by the dealership sale people to learn as well as to show customers the standard and optional features of all the cars and trucks in the Dodge line of vehicles.

Here are photos of the pages of the book that reference the availability of the 383 in the Dart.

By looking at page 109 of the book, it is clear that it was printed shortly after November 25 1966.

From this it would appear that the 383 in the Dart was planned well ahead of that date.

Draw your own conclusions....

View attachment DodgeDataBook.jpg

View attachment DodgeDataBookPage60-1.jpg

View attachment DodgeDataBookPage60-2.jpg

View attachment DodgeDataBookPage94.jpg

View attachment DodgeDataBookPage109.jpg

Sorry my scanner took a dump and I had to take photos of the book and pages.

If and when I get a new scanner I can post better images.

This book is fully of useful "Old" sales info.

Herb
 
The asterisk note says the 383 will be available February, 67.
 
Back in late November / early December of 1966, I was going to order a 383 4sp Dart. I had already heard before then thru the dealer that Dodge was coming out with the 383 in the Dart.

When I went to order the car I was told that I would have to wait until February or March to order.

I did not want to wait that long, so I ordered the car I still have today with the "HiPo" Charger 273 4bbl 4speed, 8 3/4 3.91 SureGrip.

I do not remember why, but the build on that car was delayed and it was not built until 4-28-67 and I took delivery on 5-3-67.

In the mean time a buddy of mine had gone up to Chicago to Mr. Norms and bought a yellow 67 Dart GSS 4 speed car.

When my car came in we would stoplight race thru town (Bloomington/Normal, Illinois).

The cars seemed to run about even. We never did go "out in the country" to run.

I also have a good friend in Springfield, Illinois that has his 1967 Dart GTS 383 that he ordered new. He took delivery of it on 5-30-67. He has fully restored it and has been judged 98.5 at the MOPAR Nationals a few years ago.
I did not know him back in the Sixties. We meet thru mutual friends in the Nineties.

As it turns out if you look at Gailen's production number book my 1967 Dart 270 2 door hartop 4 speed is one of 218 built which is a lower production number then the Factory built 383 4 speed cars.

Just a little history from my past,

Herb
 
Hi All
Good topic! I have a 67 Barracuda Fastback "S" 383 Automatic, April 26/67 build date.
As well as a 69 Barracuda Fastback "S' 383 Four speed with most options available. These cars are unreal! I met Mr. Norm a few years back, great guy. We discussed the Dart, the Barracuda never came up, but he did express he wish he had built a Dart convertible big block car. The big block Dart rag top is now my current project
 
Rocky_JS said:
Nice story - seems to support that the 383 A's didn't roll out for production until March or so.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with that.


The purpose of my post is to try to show that the production was planned well before the actual production dates.

With the lead time required to compile, edit and print the Dodge Data Book and with the date of November 25,1967 on the Comparison page of the book.

It would be safe to say that Dodge had plans to produce the 383 Darts well before that date.

I think it would be safe to "ASSUME" that both Plymouth and Dodge had the 383 option planned for both the Barracuda and the Dart.


Herb
 
marksmopar1 said:
Hi All
Good topic! I have a 67 Barracuda Fastback "S" 383 Automatic, April 26/67 build date.
As well as a 69 Barracuda Fastback "S' 383 Four speed with most options available. These cars are unreal! I met Mr. Norm a few years back, great guy. We discussed the Dart, the Barracuda never came up, but he did express he wish he had built a Dart convertible big block car. The big block Dart rag top is now my current project
Click to expand...

What year is your Dart convertible and is it an original big block car.

Here is a link to my big block vert http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=176323

Herb
 
The two earliest 67's that I have on file both have scheduled build dates of 2/17/67 and they were built two cars apart on the line.
 
Car Craft {February 1967}

Article took place in late November 1966. The Mr. Norm's Sport Club did their own
'383' conversion into a 1967 Dart GT.

Mind you, Car Craft reported that Chrysler was to put the '383' in the Barracuda 'only'
to compete with the;
* 1967 Mustang GT '390'.....{Introduced > October 1966}
* 1967 Camaro SS 396........{Introduced > November 1966}

The 'first' 1967 Dart GT '383 Conversion'.

With custom built Headers by "Iggy's Mufflers", a re-jetted Carter AFB {575 CFM} Carburetor,
tricked up Distributor, colder AC Spark Plugs, timing set to 34* advanced at 1500 RPM's and
7.75 x 14" Tires with 4.10 Gears Sure-Grip.

The #3220 lb. {Curb Weight} Dart GT 'Automatic' was Dyno-Tuned before taking it for a Drag Test.

Results......... 13.70's @ 102 MPH.

383Dart001.jpg
 
They did make '67 GTS convertibles. This one is a 4 speed car too :wack:
 

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As per Dave Kempton out of Arcadia California {1960's Plymouth factory-backed Stock Class Drag Racer}.

December 1966

Plymouth wanted Dave to abandon his 1962 'Sport Fury' 383/343 HP 'Stocker' at the
end of the 1966 season and campaign a 'new' 1967 Barracuda 383 Fastback 'Automatic'
in 'C/SA' {10.60 to 11.29 Wt/Hp} starting out at the 1967 NHRA Winternationals at
Pomona {February 3, 4 & 5}.

According to Dave, Plymouth wanted to make a 'splash' at the NHRA Winternationals in 'C/SA'
before going big with advertising the 'Barracuda 383'.

The 'C/S' National Record was unreachable at 12.72, but 'C/SA' was within reach at 13.38 @ 104.30 MPH.

Chrysler Racing Division had a 67' Barracuda 383 'ready for delivery' for Dave in mid-December, which would
have given him 6-Weeks to prepare for the Winternationals.
 
What is the Scheduled Production Date on that unit? I wouldn't suppose there was a non existent fender tag and Broadcast sheet in there also? lol! Thats got to be like finding an udder on a bull!


67valiant 100 said:
They did make '67 GTS convertibles. This one is a 4 speed car too :wack:
Click to expand...
 
[quote="Dart67";1970339241]Back in late November / early December of 1966, I was going to order a 383 4sp Dart. I had already heard before then thru the dealer that Dodge was coming out with the 383 in the Dart.

When I went to order the car I was told that I would have to wait until February or March to order.

I did not want to wait that long, so I ordered the car I still have today with the "HiPo" Charger 273 4bbl 4speed, 8 3/4 3.91 SureGrip.

I do not remember why, but the build on that car was delayed and it was not built until 4-28-67 and I took delivery on 5-3-67.

In the mean time a buddy of mine had gone up to Chicago to Mr. Norms and bought a yellow 67 Dart GSS 4 speed car.

When my car came in we would stoplight race thru town (Bloomington/Normal, Illinois).

The cars seemed to run about even. We never did go "out in the country" to run.

I also have a good friend in Springfield, Illinois that has his 1967 Dart GTS 383 that he ordered new. He took delivery of it on 5-30-67. He has fully restored it and has been judged 98.5 at the MOPAR Nationals a few years ago.
I did not know him back in the Sixties. We meet thru mutual friends in the Nineties.

As it turns out if you look at Gailen's production number book my 1967 Dart 270 2 door hartop 4 speed is one of 218 built which is a lower production number then the Factory built 383 4 speed cars.

Just a little history from my past,

Herb[/quote]

Herb I know how good your 67 270 runs! The book you pictured above was from November 67 so the 383 Darts had been out for 9 months by then. I would like to see a book dated before the first known 383 Darts were made to see what it says.
 
67valiant 100 said:
They did make '67 GTS convertibles. This one is a 4 speed car too :wack:
Click to expand...

When were those pictured taken? I know that Dave took a 67 GTS convertible 4-speed car out of a junkyard in New York and we bought it from him. The car still sits as found and will never be restored unfortunately, at least it is indoors nowadays.
 
1967 Dodge Dart '383 GTS'

Production Numbers

* Hardtop '4-Speed'........... 224
* Convertible '4-Speed'......... 5

* Hardtop 'Automatic'........ 216
* Convertible 'Automatic'..... 12
________________________________

The 1967 Dart 'Convertible' 383 GTS cars were desirable for NHRA in 1967, as they
had enough weight to slide down into the D/Stock Class {11.30 to 11.88 Wt/Hp}.

I have the 1967 Chrysler Racing 'suggestion book', which states that the 1967 Dart
GTS 383 'convertible' has a perfect weight break for D/S or D/SA NHRA Class.
 
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