1968 '340' Barracuda vs 1968 '383' Road Runner

-
i can offer a personal testimony here. back in 1969, i had a new 68 340 4sp fastback S cuda. a friend of mine had a new 68 383 4sp super bee. we raced probably 5 times and my cuda beat the bee every time by 1 to 2 car lengths. i probably had some advantage because my cuda had fenderwell headers, a 750 double pump and 3:91 gears. all the 383 guys i knew at the time shifted at 5500 and i would shift at 6000-6500. i think the faster winding 340 will beat most big blocks all day long. i know 389 GTOs, 396 chevys, 390/428 fords were never a problem for my cuda.
 
I have watched this thread with great amusement, as the title of the link is really nothing but argumentative. Chrysler never designed the Road Runner to race and compete with the A body 340 "baby hemi cars" . They never Intended to see the road runner dominate NHRA. They didn't even care if the car lost to chevy and ford and any other brand for that matter. But Chrysler won in the end.
The car 's popularity today shows MA Mopar won.. It doesn't matter that the car had flaws. Today people remember that car, and want to own one. It is obvious, 45,00 or so compared to 5,000 or so Cuda 340's and 383's? I rode in these cars new, had friends that had them. I was in the Military by 1970. Today those same guys want that car. Why is that? not because they were longer, harder to launch, and heavier. It was because their favorite Brunette sat next to them, their favorite buddy was "shotgun screaming, and his other buddy was in the back seat with the blonde. I can say for sure, five people in a Road Runner will blow the doors off any 340 dart with five people in the car. That is reality, and dominating NHRA was never the goals of the builders of that car. You could blast across country, haul all of your stuff, still go fast, and had a reliable car. So I submit the purpose of the post is to denigrate a 383 powered car.
That engine was the number one choice engine for police departments across the country then for a reason. And it is all Bull that a 383 was down rated to 305. a bunch of poop. I read a direct connection article in 1987 testing several 383 and 340 engines the way Chrysler did, and the 340 was actually on the dyno at near 330 HP, and the 383 at,,,,,,,,,,,,330-340. I like them all, and can say that my opinions are based on the fact that I own and drive 2 67' GTX's, a 68 383 four barrel Charger, 69' 340 GTS, a 69' 383 Cuda, and a 69' coronet 383 HP. There is also a 68' GTX waiting restoration, and the big brother of the Road runner shares the same nostalgic feeling. I have owned them for 30 plus years, and know their strengths and weaknesses as well. So, There is no real point to the post, but to cause pointless argument.
If anyone here ever rode the old 71-76 model 750 Honda four, Testers said: "it did nothing outstanding, but everything well". That was and is a 68-70 Road runner.
 
jimharvard said:
i can offer a personal testimony here. back in 1969, i had a new 68 340 4sp fastback S cuda. a friend of mine had a new 68 383 4sp super bee. we raced probably 5 times and my cuda beat the bee every time by 1 to 2 car lengths. i probably had some advantage because my cuda had fenderwell headers, a 750 double pump and 3:91 gears. all the 383 guys i knew at the time shifted at 5500 and i would shift at 6000-6500. i think the faster winding 340 will beat most big blocks all day long. i know 389 GTOs, 396 chevys, 390/428 fords were never a problem for my cuda.
Click to expand...
Only 1 or 2 car lengths with headers, a 750, and 3.91's ??? If his was stock with 3.55's you should have done better than that.
 
Old Mopar Dude,

Ouch..........

The 383/335 HP was eventually re-factored down to 300 HP by the NHRA to give it
a chance.

The 68' and 69' 383 Road Runners in NHRA {10.00 - 10.49 Wt/Hp} were wiped out at the
Drag Strip in 1968 thru 1971 in Stock Class.

Very few were successful.

You are also wrong, that Mopar did not want them to do good at the Track.

They were marketed as a budget-conscious 'Econo-Racer'.

Also, Mopar had a Marketing Package in both 1968 and 1969 promoting the Road Runner,
where Plymouth would give you 'money' if you won a Stock Eliminator event at your
Track with the 383 Road Runner.

The problem with the 383/335 HP, was that it's advertised Horsepower was 'over-rated'.

Sales were nearly 20-times greater than expected, because of smart marketing of the stylish 1968 Belvedere....


1968_road_runner_overview.jpg
 
The barracuda never had a chance with the rollout of the new 68 roadrunner, not to mention the bee and charger!
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Sales

1968 Road Runner...................46,054 {Total}

'383' Road Runner...................45,035
'426 Hemi' Road Runner............1,019
-----------------------------------------------------

1968 Barracuda.......................46,029 {Total}

'Barracuda'.............................40,920
'Barracuda' '340 Formula S'.......3,917
'Barracuda' '383 Formula S'.......1,120
'426 Hemi' Barracuda....................72
Click to expand...

El 5 Demon..........What do you mean 'never' had chance......

The 1968 Barracuda was marketed as a Sport Car. They did very well Poppy.
 
"Back in the Day" I had a 1969 Roadrunner with a T-Flite and 3.23 gears, and my brother had a 1970 Duster with a T-Flite and 3.23 gears. Both of these cars were totally stock with no aftermarket cams, headers, etc. We raced many times on the street and he would always beat me off the line by at least two car lengths. However I would close that gap and begin to pull away as we got into high gear. This is a real world fact, no offense meant to anyone.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
El 5 Demon..........What do you mean 'never' had chance......

The 1968 Barracuda was marketed as a Sport Car. They did very well Poppy.
Click to expand...
they would have sold much better if it wasn't for the B body lineup that year. the New RR, Superbee and the redesigned Charger stole the show. The sport car marketing was a flop, the pony cars mustang and camaro made sure of that. Corvette was a sport car. Just my take on it...
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Sales

1968 Road Runner...................46,054 {Total}

'383' Road Runner...................45,035
'426 Hemi' Road Runner............1,019
-----------------------------------------------------

1968 Barracuda.......................46,029 {Total}

'Barracuda'.............................40,920
'Barracuda' '340 Formula S'.......3,917
'Barracuda' '383 Formula S'.......1,120
'426 Hemi' Barracuda....................72
Click to expand...

OMG! I know where a 68 383 Formula S is sitting a couple miles from where I work. Motor is missing and headlight buckets are out. Motor location is my biggest question.

It is sitting under some trees on the side of a road.
 
:angel9:There is a full history of the Roadrunner in a book by Motor car International, by the person that developed the car, Bill Brownlie, And Documented by Paul A. Herd, who developed the Road runner, and he never mentioned once in any of his memoirs that he wanted the roadrunner to be a killer car. he wanted young people to buy it, party in it, and buy options for it. he was successful. Today a Roadrunner is still a very desirable piece. That is why Chrysler sold 45k plus from Jan 68' thru July 68', a short period of time, and A bodies were nowhere near that production. I love the A body, and own both the A and b body.
However, in 68' the Belvedere was not considered a big car, and the dart was considered tiny. Most young people preferred the B body cars, fast or not so fast. Chrysler made probably 40 million Dollars on the Road Runner that year. That is all that mattered to them. Those sales sparked sales in the other models as well,,,,,
If I had a beautiful restored numbers matching Roadrunner next to a 340 GTS, 68 or 69, that Roadrunner would sell three times before that Dart would go, as much as I like the Dart. That is cold reality. hey three couples could get in the Roadrunner, but a dart? not likely.
On a side note, the vast majority of guys that raced back then were very unskilled, and what they drove mattered little. I saw it all the time. You would get beat, and go out and but the car that beat you. the next week, you still got beat. DUH! Not to mention, in reality cemeteries are full of unfortunate young people that raced, and never came home. I'm 62, and saw it regularly.
That was the down side of times back then. Parents wishing they hadn't got their kids that roadrunner. Junkyards were full of wrecked muscle cars. I know, I saw a kid Impaled on a fence post after he rolled his car racing. Just a reality check. Have fun, but
keep a perspective, I say. Just my view.
icon7.gif
 
1968 Road Runner '383'

Highly marketed as a 'Budget' Street Racer.

Target Area,

Returning G.I.'s from Vietnam.

A $3000 'No Frills' Street Performance Car.

If you read in to this. Many of the Plymouth GTX 'Sales and Marketing Men' did not want the 'Road Runner 383' to outrun the '440 GTX'.

So, they limited the 383/335 HP to a 'one only' performance engine with either 3.23 or 3.55 Gears 'only' for 1968.

Other '383 Engine Options' were shot down, as well as Factory Option 4.10 Gears.
 
EL5DEMON340 said:
There were a lot, over a thousand hemi 68 RR's
Click to expand...


Yes,

But I was talking about other 383 'Options'.

Like the Dealer offered 'Over-the-Counter' Package in 1969.

* 3.91 Gears
* Aluminum Dual-Plane Intake Manifold
* Holley 780 CFM Carburetor
* 484" Lift/ 284* Duration 'Hydraulic Camshaft

That package knocked off a near 'full-second' over a 68' 383 Road Runner with 3.55 Gears.
 
What package? You could check off the 3.91 on the sheet when ordering the car but not the other stuff you list. Maybe that was through the hustle stuff catalog but it wasn't coming from Chrysler, that may have been offered through dealers that were into the hi po seen like Mr Norm.
 
EL 5 Demon,

The 1968 Road Runner '383' was only available with 3.23 or 3.55 Gear Sets.

Even the 'Sure-Grip' was an option on the 383.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1968 > 3.91 Gears were only available if you knew someone at the Regional Zone Office.

They had to be 'Special Ordered' by the Regional Zone Office.
 
Not talking about the gear, that's common knowledge. what is this package, carb, intake, and cam. Do you have some documentation that showed a package with a P mopar number from dealers? Or is this just something the parts counter guy would special order not having much to do with the dealer, I don't see dealers back then stocking 750's, aluminum intakes, and cams to install.
 
EL5DEMON340 said:
Not talking about the gear, that's common knowledge. what is this package, carb, intake, and cam. Do you have some documentation that showed a package with a P mopar number from dealers? Or is this just something the parts counter guy would special order not having much to do with the dealer, I don't see dealers back then stocking 750's, aluminum intakes, and cams to install.
Click to expand...

EL 5 Demon,

In mid-1968 it was called the '383 Package Stock Option', offered by Dealers as an 'Over-the-Counter' option.

# 3412004
Camshaft 'Hydraulic' ~ .484" Lift ~ 284* Duration ~ 68* Overlap
w/Matched Lifters

#2836172
Edelbrock #DP-4B Aluminum Dual-Plane Intake Manifold

# 2836149
Holley #3310-1 780 CFM Carburetor
 
Remember these cars tested new were done so with NO TRACTION !!

Road test times reported back then were bogus,slower than they actually were !

Skiny tires,bad tracks or wet roads or gravel roads or sand at the beach they tested cars at back then !

I know a old Imperial 11 or 12 second 0-60 that is reported was done on wet roads and the British driver said he spun and couldn't get any traction..why they tested them like that is beyond me..Its like testing a Viper in the snow and posting those times..Those Imperials were easy 6 second cars all day long..or better with 3.23's and duel exhaust..until 72 and later they were slower..

A 440 Cuda when new was recorded running 14's the magazine added 10" slicks that a new modern radial tire has more traction,the car ran LOW 12's with a stock 440 4bbl back in 69 ! All they did was tires,no engine mods..

383's could beat a 340,if it was in the same weight of car..Even so the 383 was spinning more than the 340 car so that's why if you raced more than a 1/4 mile the 383 would catch up/beat it with street tires.Plus 340 cars prior to 71 were lighter..A 71 340 doesn't outrun a 71 383 in a B-body with same gear ratio's,automatic vs automatic (I sold them new for awhile)

383's do rev high...

I have/had a 68 Charger rt since new,my buddy had a 69 Dart 340 Swinger,I had 3.23's he had 3.91's he hooked better out of the hole but I caught up,on the street even in my wifes 2 door 440 tnt 300,I would spin and spin if I didn't take off slow,not flooring it..my other buddy had a SuperBee 383 with 3.91's and would outrun the Dart,especially when you hooked from a roll and the 30-80 mph tests the 383 bee was 5 seconds when tested new..it was a hit and miss with my Charger or 300 due to no traction even at a roll at 15-20 mph I would light the tires up on either cars.

Now most never drove a new one as I did,most bought a rebuilt motor one that was down on power due to no lead heads,lower compression than stock ect..and bad mis matched parts,trust me I am a collector and its amazing what is out there for decades.

Most bought/drove one that down on power due to high mileage/loss of compression thus lowers performance..I had a 383 4bbl that still ran low 15's and had 1 at 80 1 cyl below 60 psi rest were 120-135..and blew smoke out the back.So it was a 383 6 cyl,and it ran 15's...

383 2bbl,different heads,crank ect than a 383 Magnum,the 383 4bbl was even different than a 383 Magnum,ran 14.80's in a E body when new and 15 flat in a C body,yes with a 383 2bbl,2.76 gears as they hooked and went,didnt spin !!

My 68 300 440 TNT runs with my 6.1 SRT8 Challenger...the Challenger even weights more..Yes,my 300 was never rebuilt with lower compression,and the motor isn't running low on compression..ensure it shifts at 50 -55 or so out of 1st when flooring it,then when it goes into 2nd your at 60..Yes when new my Charger and 300 were nearly neck and neck,1 car length difference..i added 60 series wide tread on both in 70 or so,but still spun like it was on ice..

Heck,a 1976 Volare 360 2bbl single exhaust will run 15 flat....a 383 magnum,super commando Runner,bee will run 13's all day if not you rebuilt it wrong...They sold them a hitting 14's in the 1/4 as usual Chrysler's underated advertising,and 14's for a bad driver who spun past 60 feet then the car automatically shifts into 3rd gear and you miss the 1st and 2nd power bands..

DYI,a 360 4bbl dodge Cargo van ran 15's back in the day !!

*Volara and Van were not equipt with lean burn/spark control,the carbs they used zapped all power.

late 60's to 71 340's would run 13's as did 383's in heavier cars..

Remember old road tests were done so by just flooring it and they spun,thus slowing times down,people don't know this..My 6.1 SRT hooks better than any old car ever...due to wheels being pushed out further to the sides,shorter overhang,wider sticky tires and traction control,even without it it hooks better..

Yes,my cousin,brother,buddy worked at a local track back then and we tested cars as we sold them as well for awhile..that was fun..

Even a 318 2bbl car with I cant remember what carb (they had a few different 2bbl carbs) 2 that zapped power 1 unleashed it for a 2bbl,anywho you could get high 15's with a 318 2bbl in a 1976 Coronet 4 door,my brother bought his 21 year old wife..he had a 64 Dodge 383 4bbl with a shot motor and ran 15's as well..

5 digit odometer,you couldn't tell the mileage..All those old cars back then had 70,000-100,000 aftr 6 years..not the 30,000 miles you see everywhere today..

Elevation,drastically effects these cars,so Sea Level your car is the quickest,higher up it slows down...So another factor in people thinking a 383 4bbl hipo only ran 15's..at sea level 15's were done going sideways with tiresmoke..
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
El 5 Demon..........What do you mean 'never' had chance......

The 1968 Barracuda was marketed as a Sport Car. They did very well Poppy.
Click to expand...

i only see a little over 5K barracudas with a performance engine, compared to over 46K RR's. Roadrunner was Chrysler's first true muscle car not available with any low performance engine until the 70's.
 

Attachments

  • funway 032 (1280x960).jpg
    60.9 KB · Views: 171
EL5DEMON340 said:
i only see a little over 5K barracudas with a performance engine, compared to over 46K RR's. Roadrunner was Chrysler's first true muscle car not available with any low performance engine until the 70's.
Click to expand...

While the 1968 Road Runner was 'the most popular' Mopar Street Musclecar.

The 1967 GTX was the 'first true' Mopar Street Musclecar
 
wow...
what an interesting collection of facts, memories and opinions. i suspect that there is a great deal of truth in all these posts. it's very difficult to talk about what the "muscle car era" was like with "youths" who did not grow up during that period. EVERYTHING was different in the 60's and 70's than it is now. one of the reasons "muscle cars" were so popular from the mid-60's to the early 70's was that the U.S. was a "young" country back then. in 1967, the average age of the population was something like 25! America was seen at home and abroad as a country with "excess" which could do "anything." muscle cars were "excessive" vehicles. they were amazingly fast right off the the showroom because NO ONE cared about gas miliage. "hi-test leaded" gas cost about .37 cents a gallon in 1969. and because the U.S. economy was booming and the middle class kids had lots of money to burn, driving a car that got 8-10 miles per gallon just didn't matter. i "cleared" $40/week at a bowling alley i worked at and could fill up the 15 gallon tank on my 68 formula s 340 4 speed barracuda for around $5.55! with 3.91 gears and a lot of street racing, that full tank of gas usually was gone by midnight on a friday or saturday but i didn't care because i still had around $30 bucks in my pocket! since a "Big Mac" was only .55 cents as was a quart of beer, you can do the math as to how much fun you could have driving these cars on not too much money. and at that time the "car culture" was much stronger than it is now. in 1967, something like 6 out of 10 manufacturing jobs were related to the auto industry. so EVERYONE LOVED cars! so the introduction and marketing of rediculous muscle cars was just part of the "youth culture" and the auto industry. it's hard for most to understand today why the plymouth roadrunner was "motor trends car of the year" in 1969. further, in 1969, the dodge 340 darts were being advertised with ads that said: "6000 RPM for $2999.00!" sexy young girls were all over "muscle car" tv commercials. so to a 25 year old who had some money, owning a fast car usually meant "i'm going to have sex tonight!" and as some of the "old geezer" FABO members probably know (but will never admit), there were lots of girls "back then" that REALLY enjoyed going fast in a car. and when i say "really enjoyed" you can probably figure out what that means. with out going into any detail, the REASON i ended up with a 68 barracuda in high school was due to the fold-down back seat. plymouth advertised that option using a married couple in sleeping bags with a line that said something like "you can even go camping in a new barracuda!" but the "kids" really weren't thinking about "camping." like i said, America back then did EVERYTHING in excess ... there were no other countries in the world that went through the "muscle car" experience. from 1964 to 1971, there were scores of cars that were fast - some faster than others. you could go to a dealer and for a little bit of money as a down payment, you could drive off the lot with a paper license plate in a vehicle that were literally burn the tires off the rear anytime you wanted to try. burn out contests; how far you could lay down two black lines; squelling tires and motors sounding like they were trying to suck the hood down through the carburators - all that and more was just a regular friday or saturday night. before i bought my "used" 68 formula s, my mother and i tried out a "brand new" orange 4 speed 69 A12 road runner wtih the owner of the local plymouth dealer driving. he was "an old guy" to me at the time and he didn't drive a 4 speed much. when he pulled out on the highway and tried to "give the roadrunner a little gas" that 440, 4:10 rear and 1st gear ratio almost threw me an my mother into the back seat! then he let off of the gas and he almost threw us into the windshield! can you even imagine ANY production car now right off the showroom having that much raw tourque and power? maybe there are a few but none that i can imagine a 17 year old high school student could save up and buy. it was just a crazy, crazy time for American cars. sadly, there will never be a time like that again. while there are "fast" cars today and many that i would love to own, the "kids" today will never get to experience what us "old guys" just took for granted for so many years until it was just "over."
 
Jim, how correct you are. At 61, I grew up in the 60's-70's, and yes, having a hot looking, fast car, translated into having a hot looking, fast girl, in the passenger seat.
 
hey mr red duster...
in lots of ways i feel sorry for the "youts" today. their lives are MUCH more complacated than ours were in the 60's and 70's. back then, gas was cheap and "pennicillian would kill everything" if you know what i mean. it was truly the era of "sex, drugs and rock and roll" and fast cars. although i hung with the "gear heads" who were not the same as the "druggies", we all went to the same parties at people's houses and "camps on the creeks." The weekends were a blast! and you could have just as much fun with a bottle of beer in your hand with the babes as you could hitting the halucigenic stuff. these days, i hang out in my "man cave" garage with "mopar" signs on the walls and a neon light clock with a nice radio/stereo on the "oldies" station wrenching on my 68 and 69 barracudas - much the same as i did forty-two (!) years ago. sometimes when i'm sitting in one of the cudas and the beatles or "dark side of the moon" or the beach boys are blairing.. i just close my eyes and it's almost like being "back there again." take care
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top