318/8 Speed Swap
- Thread starter wish4hemi
- Start date
-
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Good to know. I have seen that some of the fancier controllers even allow the use of a clutch pedal.
Furious65
C-body Guy
I'm looking at the MaxxECU to run the 8hp70 but in conjunction with a 5.7 Hemi swap since it would run everything.
That would be the path I would take also, definitely the best deal overall, cost is about the same as turbo lamik, with less work on the trans.
I think the number of users here who would convert to efi and swap an 8spd is incredibly small unfortunately
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Yeah I was also looking at that option. it gives a lot of flexibility. It is one of the better options that I've found.
DionR
Well-Known Member
That's a new option to me.
PCS will do a large amount of stuff I was shocked by it capabilities.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Yeah I think the main selling point of the MAXecu is that it controls both engine and transmission, so you don't have to buy two units (ECU + TCU). That's why I was looking at it.
Do you know if you can do clutch emulation and transbrake with the PCS? I wasn't finding anywhere that it did.
Last edited:
DionR
Well-Known Member
I would bet it doesn't. But just a guess.
Based on the YT video's I watched where the TurboLamik setup was created to do clutch emulation, looks like the TCM comes out and is gutted so the TurboLamik can control the solenoids directly. At least, that is my understanding of what is going on.
I would bet that direct control is required for clutch emulation. Seems like the TCM has to be modified for the SGE/PCS setup too, but not sure how extensive it is. Maybe more just a flash rather than a gut?
I would bet the MAXecu can't do clutch emulation either.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
MAXXecu does transbrake through the dodge demon flash and they are either really close or already out with the clutch part: Clutch testing
Not sure how they are doing it through CAN but yes, TurboLamik does direct control which I think is probably the best way to do it.
Edit: here is how Maxx controls everything: 8HP gearbox control
Last edited:
DionR
Well-Known Member
Not surprised with the transbrake, but interesting that they are making the clutch emulation work.
So maybe TurboLamik took the "easy" way out and just gutted the TCM rather than figure out how to do after a flash?
That answered the question of "is the Dodge 8HP supported?" for me. Thanks.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I have to admit I am a little confused by the video. They show an S197 Mustang on the dyno, but with an 8HP?? Until the end, I thought they swapped an HC into it, but nope; twin turbo Coyote.
I will admit again that even as a hardcore stick guy, the 8HP is intriguing. I love the idea of modes and a transbrake for a drag and drive event would be killer. And my wife could drive it if we were roadtripping the car, unlike my T56 where I would be the only to do all the driving.
At the same time, I really don't think it will ever feel like a manual trans. Even with clutch emulation. Even so, if I wasn't so far down the road of my T56 swap, I might have jumped to the 8HP camp.
Turbo Lamix has a real nice controller for that setup.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Ah, looks like they did a BMW DCT swap into the Mustang several years ago. So the 8HP is probably a BMW version to replace the DCT.
I've seen others talk about the BWM DCT being the ultimate trans for a pro-touring car. Guy with an Oldsmobile (Oldsmobeast on YT) has swapped one in. Not ready to go looking for one, not sure it is better than an 8HP either. But an interesting idea.
I've seen others talk about the BWM DCT being the ultimate trans for a pro-touring car. Guy with an Oldsmobile (Oldsmobeast on YT) has swapped one in. Not ready to go looking for one, not sure it is better than an 8HP either. But an interesting idea.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Yeah the 8HP is a popular swap, I assume the mustang was swapped but not sure. I just read the documentation. I think the 8hp is likely the better overall transmission even vs the dct but hard to know for sure.
I agree. I have never considered doing an automatic before as I've been a hardcore manual guy. The biggest thing that is making me consider it is my 408 makes way too much power for either manual I have (nv3500HD or 833OD) which makes the likely candidates TKX or t56 which both require extra parts that I don't have (bellhousings, hydraulic clutch etc) which basically puts them in the $5k+ range even if you can find good deals on used parts. The 8hp is all over and you can get a good pullout trans for $6-800 and all you really need is a flexplate and a TCU. So you are looking at $3k even if you go a little crazy/fancy. If I go with the MAXX Ecu that also gets me FI ECU and really a VCU with the extra inputs and datalogging for that same price.
The other thing is flexibility. With the 8 gears, super fast shifts and multiple modes you can go from an aggressive race manual setup to a smooth full auto setup that the wife could (theoretically) drive with the twist of a knob or push of a button. Also in function, with the internal clutches, the 8hp very much acts like a wet clutch manual with torque multiplication available. Also performance wise: with the fast shifts and more gearing options and transbrake, I think the 8hp will be faster in most every situation even with the slight weight penalty.
At the end of the day the main thing I'm not sure about is will I like it and will I regret not doing the manual? Unfortunately I don't have a good answer for that.
DionR
Well-Known Member
The flexibility is a big one for me. Both in the shifts and in my wife being able to drive it if needed.
And I think an 8HP will always be faster than a manual. Both because of the number of gears and because of the option for torque multiplication. Even ignoring the torque multiplication, an 8HP with a 3.08 final drive will out pull a wide ratio T56 with a 3.71 final drive in every gear.
Add that an 8HP can save some money because you really don't want those 3.55+ gears that (generally) cost more due to popularity. I've seen people giving away pumpkins because they have "emissions era" gears in them.
I have debated that in my mind for years now. Still don't have answers either.
My gut says, it won't be the same and I will miss a manual depending on the usage. For shear drving enjoyment, I think a stick wins. But if I factor in the ability to swap drivers after 4 or 6 hours of driving so we can get 2 to 4 more hours in, faster and more consistent on the strip and not have to have neck breaking shifts on the road, the option of a transbrake and costs less, it get's harder to pick a winner.
I would add that one place a stick shines is in that shift violence can be adjust at a whim, so the 8HP is actually behind there.
And on a road course, not sure if an 8HP can do compression braking like a stick can. Probably, but not something I have looked into. Might just have to be something like a TC lock above 20 mph or something to get it. Not really sure, but probably a wash between the two options there as well.
The flexibility is a big one for me. Both in the shifts and in my wife being able to drive it if needed.
And I think an 8HP will always be faster than a manual. Both because of the number of gears and because of the option for torque multiplication. Even ignoring the torque multiplication, an 8HP with a 3.08 final drive will out pull a wide ratio T56 with a 3.71 final drive in every gear.
Add that an 8HP can save some money because you really don't want those 3.55+ gears that (generally) cost more due to popularity. I've seen people giving away pumpkins because they have "emissions era" gears in them.
I have debated that in my mind for years now. Still don't have answers either.
My gut says, it won't be the same and I will miss a manual depending on the usage. For shear drving enjoyment, I think a stick wins. But if I factor in the ability to swap drivers after 4 or 6 hours of driving so we can get 2 to 4 more hours in, faster and more consistent on the strip and not have to have neck breaking shifts on the road, the option of a transbrake and costs less, it get's harder to pick a winner.
I would add that one place a stick shines is in that shift violence can be adjust at a whim, so the 8HP is actually behind there.
And on a road course, not sure if an 8HP can do compression braking like a stick can. Probably, but not something I have looked into. Might just have to be something like a TC lock above 20 mph or something to get it. Not really sure, but probably a wash between the two options there as well.
The flexibility is a big one for me. Both in the shifts and in my wife being able to drive it if needed.
And I think an 8HP will always be faster than a manual. Both because of the number of gears and because of the option for torque multiplication. Even ignoring the torque multiplication, an 8HP with a 3.08 final drive will out pull a wide ratio T56 with a 3.71 final drive in every gear.
Add that an 8HP can save some money because you really don't want those 3.55+ gears that (generally) cost more due to popularity. I've seen people giving away pumpkins because they have "emissions era" gears in them.
I have debated that in my mind for years now. Still don't have answers either.
My gut says, it won't be the same and I will miss a manual depending on the usage. For shear drving enjoyment, I think a stick wins. But if I factor in the ability to swap drivers after 4 or 6 hours of driving so we can get 2 to 4 more hours in, faster and more consistent on the strip and not have to have neck breaking shifts on the road, the option of a transbrake and costs less, it get's harder to pick a winner.
I would add that one place a stick shines is in that shift violence can be adjust at a whim, so the 8HP is actually behind there.
And on a road course, not sure if an 8HP can do compression braking like a stick can. Probably, but not something I have looked into. Might just have to be something like a TC lock above 20 mph or something to get it. Not really sure, but probably a wash between the two options there as well.
I have a GDE tune in my 2015 Ram Ecodiesel with an 8hp and it has full gear braking.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Yeah, You can definitely do engine braking. I think on a road course I'd be more concerned about heat. But also a full size pickup towing a trailer up a mountain probably generates more heat than a 3500lb A-body and you can always do a cooler.
I think most of the people reading this thread are pretty well informed about the options and their basic info, but this popped in my YouTube feed.
For anyone considering the maxxecu, if you didn't want to run an external crank trigger, the distributor from the Edelbrock proflo 4 kit uses the Ford TPI 7+1 trigger setup, which is supported by maxxecu.
Max ECU uses the molex CMC series connector, parts are readily available, so making a custom harness would be relatively easy.
You could even repurpose a pro flo 4 harness (which are application generic for all distributor applications) which also uses the CMC series connector (it would require swapping pins on the connector though)
For anyone considering the maxxecu, if you didn't want to run an external crank trigger, the distributor from the Edelbrock proflo 4 kit uses the Ford TPI 7+1 trigger setup, which is supported by maxxecu.
Max ECU uses the molex CMC series connector, parts are readily available, so making a custom harness would be relatively easy.
You could even repurpose a pro flo 4 harness (which are application generic for all distributor applications) which also uses the CMC series connector (it would require swapping pins on the connector though)
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Thanks! I watched that video the other day.
I was thinking of using a jeep distributor as a crank sensor. I hadn't dug into if that was really well supported well but I've seen people do it and it would be low impact to change an LA over to it.
Do you run a Maxxecu? You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about them.
I'm currently running the Edelbrock pro flo4. It's an easy, and reasonably priced, entry into multi port efi. But I've have a few different issues over the years I've owned it, and I was looking into the maxx ECU as a swap.
It would run the 8hp, and I could use all my current parts. I did some work into an adapter module as well, that would plug into between the existing harness and the maxxecu, so I wouldn't need to repin it.
I have a flex plate designed as well, I think it's linked here somewhere in this thread.
-
Similar threads
- Locked
