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RH62

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wont start at all... nothing...
cranks and cranks but doesnt fire.
Its getting fuel i can see it squirt when i pump the gas. its getting spark, i pulled a plug and cranked it with plug on end of wire grounded to exhaust manifold and im getting spark.
a couple times when i was cranking it it sounded like a gear was grind or hit out of sink.... i thought it was maybe the flywheel had a tooth missing or a worn starter gear causing but now im thinking may have skipped timing. I pulled the valve cover and kinda spun the push rods to see if the wobbled like they were bent and they seemed ok.
the timing cover doesnt seem to have any timing marks on it. the vehicle is a 69 but the numbers on the front of the motor suggest that its a 73 engine. the engine has a cast iron water pump that exits on the drivers side.
any suggestions on trouble shooting?
thanks in advance.
 
Back to basics, an engine needs three things to run:

COMPRESSION. IF you think it has fuel and spark, run a compression check.

SPARK. GOOD spark, at the right TIME. REALLY look at the spark. Resistor wires can fool ya. Take a wire/ clip lead, or your 12V test lamp (which you have!) and ground the clip. Pull the coil wire, and put the probe near the top of the coil tower. Have someone crank, using the key, NOT jumpering the starter relay

You should get a nice blue fat spark.

If you have a timing light, you can check timing "on the starter." If no light, bring the timing marks up to "about" where you think the timing should be, IE, 10* BTC, etc, and pull the cap. The rotor should be approaching the no1 wire tower, the points should "just" be open, or the electronic reluctor should be real close to centered on the pickup core.

If not, timing chain!!

FUEL Do not trust what's in the tank. Could kids have "added water?" So take some known good fuel, and squirt down the carb throat.

Pull all the plugs and take a good look, they fouled?
 
It has been converted over to electronic ignition with the 4 pole ballast. There is no timing marks on the timing cover on this car.
Last year i went thru the fuel system all new fuel line, fuel pump, and had the tank cleaned and coated. i have a locking gas cap so i dont think anyone could have added water.
Ill try the trick with the coil tommorow
 
So I'm reading this post because I have the same problem. IE fuel at the carb but haven't checked the spark because I'm by myself and don't have a remote start. It looks like it has fuel at the carb spray from two streams. Four barrel carb. It just turns over and over. It ran fine a few days ago just around town and then topped the tank off before I brought it home. Full tank.
I don't think it was bad gas? I'm talking topped off full. Went to go windsurfing and it won't start so I spent a couple of hours messing with it and letting it sit in case I flooded it, Don't think that was the case since I usually get it running .
I'm at a loss except to check for spark when I get help. My mechanic friend was supposed to come over to check it out but flaked?:sad9:
Dam car , I have missed more windsurfing days because the car lately.
I guess I should be happy I didn't get stranded somewhere! What ever the cause is might be a long problem I have with it starting when hot? IE a bad coil? Not hot enough spark? The car seems to be real tempermental about how you start it.
dodgedartCassiniranch005.jpg
 
Put a cap full of gas down the carb throat - if it doesn't fire you've ruled out inadequate supply.

I'd then look at the timing - especially if it's making spark and not firing.
 
So I borrowed a spark plug test light. No spark at the spark plug?
Now I need to test the Coil, I'll need to get help to hold the test light to the tower. I tried to replace the Ballast resister with an old one I had yesterday, it doesn't need to be bolted down does it ? I just plugged the wires and tried it with out luck. So at least I know I don't have spark, know I just have to figure out what needs to be replaced, Coil, electric unit in distributor, ICU . Thanks :|
 
I don't have a spark at the spark plug and got my neighbor to help turn the car over and held the test light at the coil tower! I have a bright blue spark!
What's that telling me that the electrical unit in the distributor is not working? Electronic ignition? Thanks
 
OK, calm down and use that thing on top of your shoulders. If you have a nice, fat, blue spark, RYTHMIC as the engine cranks, at the coil----THIS IS GOOD.

Now we need to know

A do you really NOT have spark at the plugs, and why?

B did you make a mistake in your testing

Remove the cap and rotor, and inspect. You are looking for grease, moisture, junk, garbage, black powdery residue, etc. In other words any dirt, moisture or other substance which just might "carry the spark." Spark is just like lightening. It will take the easies path "to ground."

If the cap / rotor looks OK, remove one wire AT THE CAP, plug your coil back in, and recheck. BE SURE you crank the engine long enough (two crank revolutions) to be sure that the rotor has had time to "come around."

If so, --this is good!!

If not, pull the cap back off, crank the engine, and make sure the rotor is turning. If not, you have mechanical engine problems. If so, RE--inspect the cap/ rotor, or replace them.

If you DO have spark at the plug tower, you MAY have incorrectly tested at the plug earlier. So plug the wire into the cap, go down and pull it off the plug, and recheck. Once again, allow time for the engine to rotate.

If this looks OK, it's either a

compression problem,

bad/ fouled plugs,

or no fuel or bad fuel. (Anybody put something in the tank? water? diesel?)
 
67Dart273 said:
OK, calm down and use that thing on top of your shoulders. If you have a nice, fat, blue spark, RYTHMIC as the engine cranks, at the coil----THIS IS GOOD.

Now we need to know

A do you really NOT have spark at the plugs, and why?

B did you make a mistake in your testing

Remove the cap and rotor, and inspect. You are looking for grease, moisture, junk, garbage, black powdery residue, etc. In other words any dirt, moisture or other substance which just might "carry the spark." Spark is just like lightening. It will take the easies path "to ground."

If the cap / rotor looks OK, remove one wire AT THE CAP, plug your coil back in, and recheck. BE SURE you crank the engine long enough (two crank revolutions) to be sure that the rotor has had time to "come around."

If so, --this is good!!

If not, pull the cap back off, crank the engine, and make sure the rotor is turning. If not, you have mechanical engine problems. If so, RE--inspect the cap/ rotor, or replace them.

If you DO have spark at the plug tower, you MAY have incorrectly tested at the plug earlier. So plug the wire into the cap, go down and pull it off the plug, and recheck. Once again, allow time for the engine to rotate.

If this looks OK, it's either a

compression problem,

bad/ fouled plugs,

or no fuel or bad fuel. (Anybody put something in the tank? water? diesel?)
Click to expand...
I borrowed a test unit from a mechanic that you plug onto the spark plug and the other end to the wire and is long enough to see the light bulb on the tester from inside the car. Tried a few times with no spark, turned the motor over a few times long each time.

So the cap and rotor are new a few months old, very clean.

The gas is new fresh full tank, it shouldn't be bad? car locked in garage with locked cap.
I'll try to get my neighbor to help again.

A , Pull a plug wire and check at the cap with the test light probe?

B , Check spark at spark plug , Recheck
 
So after two days of messing with it and testing, I was checking for a spark at the cap after pulling a wire turned it over and acted like it wanted to fire up? Put the wire back on and it fired right up?
Earlier today after find no spark at the plug and I had spark at the coil I took the brown bushing off the post of the distributer to see how the electrode for the distributer came off. Put it all back together and decided to check pricing.
I'm thinking it must be the distributer. The electrode unit cost $45 , rebuilt a whole distributer $75 and a new for 95 with cap and rotor.
I don't really trust it right now, it fires right up and drove it a couple of miles to charge up the battery after all that cranking. It runs great just like before but I'm thinking a new distributer is in order? Thanks for all the help and advise . Any advise on marking the rotor location for dropping the new distributer in?
 
I always hate to condone "throwing money" (or parts) at a problem.

You have a 69? You running, what, for ignition, coverted to Mopar electronic, or other? What distributor?

It MIGHT be as simple as adjusting the "reluctor gap" (Mopar electronic dist.) or it MIGHT be that the bushings in the dist. are worn out.

The "brown bushing" you describe sounds like the rotor.

You have a shop manual? Download one or more here, free:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=132309&highlight=manual,+download

If you are using the Mopar type ECU and distributor, download the '72 manual, (first one posted) and when you load the file into your pdf reader, type in 8-52 for the page number.

To check and set reluctor gap, you need a .008 non-magnetic (usually brass) feeler gauge.
 
67Dart273 said:
I always hate to condone "throwing money" (or parts) at a problem.

You have a 69? You running, what, for ignition, coverted to Mopar electronic, or other? What distributor?

It MIGHT be as simple as adjusting the "reluctor gap" (Mopar electronic dist.) or it MIGHT be that the bushings in the dist. are worn out.

The "brown bushing" you describe sounds like the rotor.

You have a shop manual? Download one or more here, free:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=132309&highlight=manual,+download

If you are using the Mopar type ECU and distributor, download the '72 manual, (first one posted) and when you load the file into your pdf reader, type in 8-52 for the page number.

To check and set reluctor gap, you need a .008 non-magnetic (usually brass) feeler gauge.
Click to expand...
I'm just using a mopar type ecu and distributor,
I'm running a 74 318
I have already replaced the distributor after the last post.

My manual only goes up to 71, What timing should I be running 2 before tdc, 70 and older said Zero ?
I set it at 2 a few before tdc. seems to run good and starts fine?
Didn't know I was supposed to set the gap on the reluctor?

Your right after I took it apart and put it back together I changed the gap a little and that's why it started.
I'll try to look up the gap for the reluctor. The new one is metal and the old one was plastic. for 96 bucks it's worth putting new since it came with the motor. Not sure how old it was when I bought the motor.
 
169dart4y said:
I'll try to look up the gap for the reluctor. The new one is metal and the old one was plastic. .
Click to expand...

plastic? We must be talking about two different things. You're not thinking of the thrust bushing on the bottom of the housing?

Or maybe it just LOOKED like it was plastic

All reluctor gaps for all Mopar breakerless distributors are .008
 
I changed the distributor and ballast resistor on mine and got it to fire. i have some issues with the under hood wiring i can tell too. when i was cranking it to start it was coughing up thru the carb. could that be just my timing is off a bit from the dist change or could it still be that it has jumped a tooth on timing, or both?
 
169dart4y said:
So I'm reading this post because I have the same problem. IE fuel at the carb but haven't checked the spark because I'm by myself and don't have a remote start. It looks like it has fuel at the carb spray from two streams. Four barrel carb. It just turns over and over. It ran fine a few days ago just around town and then topped the tank off before I brought it home. Full tank.
I don't think it was bad gas? I'm talking topped off full. Went to go windsurfing and it won't start so I spent a couple of hours messing with it and letting it sit in case I flooded it, Don't think that was the case since I usually get it running .
I'm at a loss except to check for spark when I get help. My mechanic friend was supposed to come over to check it out but flaked?:sad9:
Dam car , I have missed more windsurfing days because the car lately.
I guess I should be happy I didn't get stranded somewhere! What ever the cause is might be a long problem I have with it starting when hot? IE a bad coil? Not hot enough spark? The car seems to be real tempermental about how you start it.
dodgedartCassiniranch005.jpg
Click to expand...
I love those wheels! what are the details on the wheel/tire combo?
 
RH62 said:
I changed the distributor and ballast resistor on mine and got it to fire. i have some issues with the under hood wiring i can tell too. when i was cranking it to start it was coughing up thru the carb. could that be just my timing is off a bit from the dist change or could it still be that it has jumped a tooth on timing, or both?
Click to expand...

You may have the dist. "180 out." You mentioned you cannot see the timing marks. The water pump on the driver side indicates the pump is an early pump on a probably late engine, PROBABLY with a late timing cover or at least late balancer.

You will probably have to manufacture marks that you can see

Make, get, buy a piston stop like this:

http://www.jerrybramlett.net/images/pic_installation.jpg

Remove no1 plug, make sure piston is down "enough," remove battery ground for safety, and install the stop.

Rotate the engine with a socket wrench until it stops "at the stop." Now look and see where the stock timing mark is on the balancer. It's probably over on the driver side right under the pump outlet Also look on the passenger side and see if there's a pointer/ timing tab

If not, you'll have to build something you can see. After building something, at least temporary for a pointer, make a temporary mark on the balancer under the pointer.

Next rotate the engine CCW with your socket wrench, and when it stops, make a second mark on the balancer

When done, you'll have two marks some distance apart, and true TDC will be halfway between.

Now you'll have to make a choice on how to "handle" the rest----either buy timing tape for the size of your balancer, or build a final pointer and scribe a permanent mark on the wheel, then compute how many "degrees per inch" around the wheel --as per the size/ diameter of the wheel--and scribe marks accordingly.

In any case, to install the distributor, you cannot just bring the "marks up" because "no1 ready to fire" only happens every OTHER rotation. So when the marks come up, no1 may be firing or no6 may be.

To determine WHEN no1 is ready, hook the battery back up, pull out the piston stop, and stick your finger in the plug hole.

Bump the engine around on the starter and when you START to feel compression with your finger, bring your "marks" up, and in this case---estimate a little before TDC, say about 1/2-5/8 inch away from TDC

NOW the engine will be "no1" in position, so now you can put the dist. in so the rotor points to the no1 spot on the cap.

(It actually makes no difference which plug tower this IS, so long as you hook no1 wire to where the rotor points.)

Now with the dist in place, the rotor pointing to the no1 tower, rotate the dist a little retard, (CW for smallblock) and slowly bring it back "advanced" (CCW) until either the points just open, or if breakerless, center the reluctor tip on the center of the pickup coil.

If you did this right, the engine should start and run.

Since you have no timing marks, two ways of getting the timing "close" is to warm the engine up, and advance slowly until the engine pings / knocks under load, or

use a vacuum gauge. Move timing until vacuum "peaks" then RETARD about 2" of mercury.
 
wow.. thanks!
my motor is a later motor with an early waterpump. the timing marks on the cover are on the drivers side but the balancer is somewhat hidden behind the water hose. when i pulled the dist out i was very careful to put the new one in with the rotor facing the same direction. ill do some more cleaning and see if i can find the mark on the balancer.
thanks for all the info!
 
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