360 starter mount compatibility woes

[69fury]

Does anyone know or have the ability to compare a Quicktime RM-6072 bellhousing (a833) to either a 904 bell bolt housing or a factory LA bellhousing?

I'm in the middle of a of a custom engine swap into a very small car and the damned driver side starter and my steering box are fighting for space. The 90s Denso mini is too bulky out to the side.

I tried the 2005-2008 Ram 1500 Hemi with manual starter. It's AWESOMELY COMPACT but hits the 360 block at the bulge for the bigger mains by a GOOD bit. I've been told it doesn't fit a 360 with a 904. Well it doesnt fit a 360 with a QT bell starter pocket either.

There is an even smaller starter from Robb MC. It's 360 clockable and possibly could work but only if the QT starter pocket isn't located the same as a 904, because he expressly states it wont work on a 360-904 combo (I'd be willing to bet it's the same issue as a 318/
360 magnum since they have same main sizes).

So is there anyone that has a QT bell and either a 904 or factory 130tooth LA bell that can compare the patterns to see if the starter pocket exactly matches either of them?

Many thanks,
-Rick

05-08 Ram Hemi Stick starter:

Robb MC starter with 360* clockable solenoid:

Many thanks,
-Rick

 

[Oldmanmopar]

I would think all bell housings for a 130 tooth flywheel would have the same starter location. Only the early 273 122 tooth flywheel and bellhousing would have the starter pocket moved inward for the smaller Dia. flywheel. The starter has to be at the correct location to mesh with the flywheel

 

[jos51700]

I just used a mid '90's Dakota starter and didn't have a problem

 

[69fury]

I just used a mid '90's Dakota starter and didn't have a problem

Yeah, i listed that i tried that- but it hits my steering box- this is a custom engine swap

 

[69fury]

I would think all bell housings for a 130 tooth flywheel would have the same starter location. Only the early 273 122 tooth flywheel and bellhousing would have the starter pocket moved inward for the smaller Dia. flywheel. The starter has to be at the correct location to mesh with the flywheel

The starter only has to be the correct distance away from the crank center to hit the flywheel. If a bellhousing factory wants to put the starter pocket at 6:00, under the engine and it's up to you to by a low profile dry sump oil pan, then it would still function.

I know the denso bolts up to 727, 904, and 4 speed, but the hemi starter in the top picture wont clear a 360 block with a 904 bell. I'd bet the 904 starter pocket is rotated around the clock compared to an LA pattern 727, which i used to have.

my problem is the denso is chunky where the motor portion juts out and up from the block, which is were the swap recipient keeps it's steering box. The skinny hemi starter in the top pic has casting support of the solenoid that firmly hits the 360 block. If i cant find some type of info one way or another i'm gonna have to spend 400bux plus tax on a starter in the bottom pic, possibly just to send it right back, ugh


-rick

-rick

 

[JunkyJimmy]

I have these bell housings, I guess overlaying the block plate to the factory bellhousing or 904 is what you are asking? I do also have a Lakewood.

 

[oldkimmer]

SpeedMaster makes an adjustable starter. I have one but haven’t tried it on a small block. Kim

 

[jos51700]

Yeah, i listed that i tried that- but it hits my steering box- this is a custom engine swap

My apologies, I missed that part about the chassis.

The starter only has to be the correct distance away from the crank center to hit the flywheel. If a bellhousing factory wants to put the starter pocket at 6:00, under the engine and it's up to you to by a low profile dry sump oil pan, then it would still function.

I know the denso bolts up to 727, 904, and 4 speed, but the hemi starter in the top picture wont clear a 360 block with a 904 bell. I'd bet the 904 starter pocket is rotated around the clock compared to an LA pattern 727, which i used to have.

my problem is the denso is chunky where the motor portion juts out and up from the block, which is were the swap recipient keeps it's steering box. The skinny hemi starter in the top pic has casting support of the solenoid that firmly hits the 360 block. If i cant find some type of info one way or another i'm gonna have to spend 400bux plus tax on a starter in the bottom pic, possibly just to send it right back, ugh


-rick

-rick

What's the chassis application, and how much space-time interference are we talking about? I realize it probably won't help, but some of these guys are versed in a lot more than Mopar

 

[69fury]

I have these bell housings, I guess overlaying the block plate to the factory bellhousing or 904 is what you are asking? I do also have a Lakewood.

That would be awesome if you could do a tracing of the QT and a 904 or a small block 130 tooth factory bell. Ive gotten a response from QT (Holley) and they said the small block 4 speed QT RM6072 is, in fact, modeled after the 904 pocket, but he didnt swear that it's in the identical location. If it is, then it's basically a 904 and therefore a Denso, or possibly an adjustable (semi-clockable) Denso from Bouchillon are the smallest options for me.

If it matches the 904, then i'm sunk and have to move the steering box forward in the car.
If it matches the factory stick bell of a 130tooth, then it may work.
If it's somewhere else, just a bit lower than a 904 pattern then who knows, lol.

If you have time to let us know, maybe we could solve it for others in the future, as well!

thanks!
-rick

 

[69fury]

My apologies, I missed that part about the chassis.

What's the chassis application, and how much space-time interference are we talking about? I realize it probably won't help, but some of these guys are versed in a lot more than Mopar

1960 Ford Falcon with 1967 Chevy G10 Van I beam axle with parallel leaf springs. I found an old gasser in a barn and it one time had the complete van side steering setup with the column between legs to steering box under seat and the drag link running forward to the drivers tire.

But now it's getting a side steering drag link to the passenger tire.

I have 2 falcon boxes to play with, even got ready to reverse one, but then picked up a Vega box which is both more compact and bigger depending on which dimension you view.

The steering arms are rear steer (they point rearwards from the axle and are connected with a solid tie rod). The passenger tie rod end has an extra hole to accept a drag link from the steering box.

If i move the steering box (either one) just a bit forward to get a head of the starter, then the forward pointing pitman arm is far too long to reach the tie rod. I'd need like a 2 inch long pitman.

My most recent attempt was either box moved forward, sitting JUST behind the axle, with the pitman moved 180 degrees to point back to the steering arms-tie rod. To make this work, i'd need a steering reverser from Coleman, as well as making sure the tie rod doesn't travel up into the pitman on bumps.

thanks
-rick

 

[69fury]

SpeedMaster makes an adjustable starter. I have one but haven’t tried it on a small block. Kim

i wasn't able to find one on their website that specifically stated it was adjustable. do you have a part number?

Thanks,
-rick

 

[JunkyJimmy]

Give me acouple days, busy while it’s nice out. I will put the qt motor plate on a 904 ,sb bellhousing, could also check to a 727.

 

[69fury]

Give me acouple days, busy while it’s nice out. I will put the qt motor plate on a 904 ,sb bellhousing, could also check to a 727.

Thanks!

 

[oldkimmer]

i wasn't able to find one on their website that specifically stated it was adjustable. do you have a part number?

Thanks,
-rick

Rick, I’ll look for it. Kim

 

[oldkimmer]

D/M sent. Kim

 

[jos51700]

1960 Ford Falcon with 1967 Chevy G10 Van I beam axle with parallel leaf springs. I found an old gasser in a barn and it one time had the complete van side steering setup with the column between legs to steering box under seat and the drag link running forward to the drivers tire.

But now it's getting a side steering drag link to the passenger tire.

I have 2 falcon boxes to play with, even got ready to reverse one, but then picked up a Vega box which is both more compact and bigger depending on which dimension you view.

The steering arms are rear steer (they point rearwards from the axle and are connected with a solid tie rod). The passenger tie rod end has an extra hole to accept a drag link from the steering box.

If i move the steering box (either one) just a bit forward to get a head of the starter, then the forward pointing pitman arm is far too long to reach the tie rod. I'd need like a 2 inch long pitman.

My most recent attempt was either box moved forward, sitting JUST behind the axle, with the pitman moved 180 degrees to point back to the steering arms-tie rod. To make this work, i'd need a steering reverser from Coleman, as well as making sure the tie rod doesn't travel up into the pitman on bumps.

thanks
-rick

Could you use a late hemi bell to get it on the right hand side? I think some Gen III Hemi had them on the passenger side?

Edited to add, the Falcon sounds badass

 

[JunkyJimmy]

Ok, first Pic is a lakewood, 2nd stock sb bellhousing, 3rd 727, last 2, 904, hope this helps.

 

[oldkimmer]

Ok, first Pic is a lakewood, 2nd stock sb bellhousing, 3rd 727, last 2, 904, hope this helps.

View attachment 1716478862

View attachment 1716478863

View attachment 1716478864

View attachment 1716478865

View attachment 1716478866

Thanks for the tutorial. Kim

 

[JunkyJimmy]

How about a stock magnum starter.? That’s what we ran, cleared the block on everything we ran, and relatively small. Cheap also!

 

[Jarlaxle]

How about a stock magnum starter.? That’s what we ran, cleared the block on everything we ran, and relatively small. Cheap also!

Tried, doesn't clear.

OK, here's my hail Mary play: do you have a stock starter? (Ideally, a pre-75 with the short housing.) If so...worth a try? On a handful of applications, the Denso gearbox simply doesn't clear, while the larger but slightly-skinnier stocker DOES. (This includes some A-body headers.) It probably won't work, but it might be worth a try before dropping $400.