440 help needed

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Mopar-Man

Big Block Better Burnout
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I have an older race 440 motor I have swapped into a hot street '74 Duster. The problem is the 440 has 11.5:1 pistons and angle milled iron heads. I guestimate the CR to be 12.5-13:1. It has a nasty Crane solid cam that specs out at 324 duration (forgot the @ .050 sorry!) and .620 lift, it is a single pattern. It idles at 1500. When I rev it it is like an on/off switch. I have a 4,000 stall JW converter behind it. Now for the questions. *** HOW *** do I get this thing to run on pump gas (93 octane)?

I just bought TRW forged flat tops with flycuts, LY rods, and a forged crank all balanced. I am thinking with the milled heads it will be 10.5:1. Is this an accurate guess? What solid cam should I run to keep cylinder pressure down or with the loose converter do I need to worry about it? Oh, I have 3.91 gears and the car weighs 3400lbs.

Thanks for ANY suggestions!
 
I have an older race 440 motor I have swapped into a hot street '74 Duster. The problem is the 440 has 11.5:1 pistons and angle milled iron heads. I guestimate the CR to be 12.5-13:1. It has a nasty Crane solid cam that specs out at 324 duration (forgot the @ .050 sorry!) and .620 lift, it is a single pattern. It idles at 1500. When I rev it it is like an on/off switch. I have a 4,000 stall JW converter behind it. Now for the questions. *** HOW *** do I get this thing to run on pump gas (93 octane)?

I just bought TRW forged flat tops with flycuts, LY rods, and a forged crank all balanced. I am thinking with the milled heads it will be 10.5:1. Is this an accurate guess? What solid cam should I run to keep cylinder pressure down or with the loose converter do I need to worry about it? Oh, I have 3.91 gears and the car weighs 3400lbs.

Thanks for ANY suggestions!

I think your quest to tone this beast down is probably correct for a street application on 91-92 octane. I wouldn't go any higher that 10.5 and personally would shoot for 10 to 1. With the TRW flat tops you're going to have to mock things up and then measure your CR cuss you can't say whether the block deck has been altered and if so by how much. At that time, using your shaved heads and a .060" head gasket, clay 1 piston on each bank to determine your final piston to valve head clearance and if you've got at least .060-.080" clearance I'd go with this cam.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-21-248-4/

You may even want to consider toning down the converter to a 3000 RPM stall, again for the street.

Terry
 
I think your quest to tone this beast down is probably correct for a street application on 91-92 octane. I wouldn't go any higher that 10.5 and personally would shoot for 10 to 1. With the TRW flat tops you're going to have to mock things up and then measure your CR cuss you can't say whether the block deck has been altered and if so by how much. At that time, using your shaved heads and a .060" head gasket, clay 1 piston on each bank to determine your final piston to valve head clearance and if you've got at least .060-.080" clearance I'd go with this cam.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-21-248-4/

You may even want to consider toning down the converter to a 3000 RPM stall, again for the street.

Terry

That is some good info! Thank you. I was planning on getting a Hughes cam because they said they are designed around the .904 lifter instead of "Chevy" lobes. Is this correct? I noticed their solid lifter profiles are very aggresive with lift compared to most other brands. Would this be destructive on the street and wipe lobes? Would 250 degrees @ .050 and .570 lift be too much cam? I will shift at 63-6500 rpm.
 
That is some good info! Thank you. I was planning on getting a Hughes cam because they said they are designed around the .904 lifter instead of "Chevy" lobes. Is this correct? I noticed their solid lifter profiles are very aggresive with lift compared to most other brands. Would this be destructive on the street and wipe lobes? Would 250 degrees @ .050 and .570 lift be too much cam? I will shift at 63-6500 rpm.

The lobes of a Hugesengines shaft are very aggressive but are not destructive to anything if set up properly with there springs and good machine work. The way to "Wipe out lobes" would be lack of oil or poor valve spring choice. When you break in a new cam, fresh oil, coat the cam with assembley lube and add break in additive since the new oil's of today lack the componets to protect the cam during break in. Huges also has this in bottles that should be purchased along with the cam, lifters and it's springs.

To much cam is dependent of alot of factors including what you can live with on the street. Mechanical factors are, limit of the heads total lift abilty, what it can handle, flow of the heads ports are another consideration, the cars weight, stall converter, rear gear axle ratio. Of course, the cars intended purpose.

I know fellas running around with duration @ .050 well over 260 and running lifts of .700+. Then again, these cars are not equiped with 2.76 gears and stock stall converters ethier. LOL

I have an older race 440 motor I have swapped into a hot street '74 Duster. The problem is the 440 has 11.5:1 pistons and angle milled iron heads. I guestimate the CR to be 12.5-13:1. It has a nasty Crane solid cam that specs out at 324 duration (forgot the @ .050 sorry!) and .620 lift, it is a single pattern. It idles at 1500. When I rev it it is like an on/off switch. I have a 4,000 stall JW converter behind it. Now for the questions. *** HOW *** do I get this thing to run on pump gas (93 octane)?

I just bought TRW forged flat tops with flycuts, LY rods, and a forged crank all balanced. I am thinking with the milled heads it will be 10.5:1. Is this an accurate guess? What solid cam should I run to keep cylinder pressure down or with the loose converter do I need to worry about it? Oh, I have 3.91 gears and the car weighs 3400lbs.

Thanks for ANY suggestions!

What you need to do right off the bat is figure out what the compression ratio is for sure and not guess it at all or assume. Most big cams/race cams are like light switchs. That is the nature of the beast.

A streetable compresion that still works with a sizeable cam is 10-1. A larger cam can go to 11-1 and still use 93 ocatne. I would not mill the curent heads since you stated they are allready angle milled. I would use a piston that will get to a zero deck clearance or dang close and go from there. Your really not worried about cam size and the pressure it builds at idle, but later in the RPM band when the "Ram - ing effect" comes into play. You can get around the pinging by limiting the advance in the distributor for this.

Not knowing how well the heads are ported or there flow abilty, cam recomandation is very hard. In example, heres a couple of Lunati split duration cams;
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2561&gid=317
or a smaller one;
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2560&gid=317
or;
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1574&gid=283

Once you know the heads cc's and there flow abilty's, the choices of cams can be narrowed down.
 
very good info rumble! math is your friend when building an engine. do your research very carefully and don't guess at anything (like compression).
 
What I have are 452 heads with 2.14/1.81 valves, a pocket port and port matched on the exhaust side. The engine went 11.0 @ 119mph in my last Duster but I believe it was over-cammed. The headers are custom built 2 1/4" primary full length into a 3 inch exhaust that dumps in front of the rear tires. I can live with a nasty cam on the street as this car will be driven maybe once a week. Do to the loose converter and 3.91 gears I don't care about bottom end.
 
The lobes of a Hugesengines shaft are very aggressive but are not destructive to anything if set up properly with there springs and good machine work. The way to "Wipe out lobes" would be lack of oil or poor valve spring choice.

I beg to differ , been there suffered the RATH of Dave hughes because of it .

If one is going to run his HTL solid cam LIFTER GEOMETRY IS CRITICAL , if it's not spot on it will EAT THE CAM PERIOD .

We had 2 of his cams go away because of bad lifter geometry , bushed the block problem solved . If you are going to buy one of these cams Dave will strongly suggest that the block be bushed , he didn't suggest strong enough or I would have had it done and saved both he and I a ton of greif .

His HTL grinds do work , 469 cube engine made over 700 hp with the 264/268 cam on 92 octane gas .
 
What I have are 452 heads with 2.14/1.81 valves, a pocket port and port matched on the exhaust side. The engine went 11.0 @ 119mph in my last Duster but I believe it was over-cammed. The headers are custom built 2 1/4" primary full length into a 3 inch exhaust that dumps in front of the rear tires. I can live with a nasty cam on the street as this car will be driven maybe once a week. Do to the loose converter and 3.91 gears I don't care about bottom end.

I doubt it will run on pump gas with the pistons you bought and those heads unless the heads have been machined basically to closed chamber , even then compression will need to be no more than 9.5 .

Running higher compression everything needs to be PERFECT , quench at .035 -.040 and the right cam .

those headers and convertor are too big for the detune you want to do
 
I did say set up properly.

yes you did but you left out the most cruical part , lifter geometry , that goes way past set up properly , my engine was set up properly ... it had lifter bore geometry issues
 
Yes, that is true. Glad you spoke up about it since many people will just slip cams in and out without thought.
 
Well it looks like I am going to do a cranking compression test on it to see where it is at. Then I am going to pull one head and do a cc check followed by measuring how far the piston is down the hole. Since I know the domes are 12.1cc and the gasket is .039 I can get really close on the actual compression ratio. I actually started and drove it around on 93 octane in my other Duster and it ran great but I never opened it up. I am positive it would have rattled pretty hard. I just want an 11 second street car and if that can be done with 10:1 then great. If this motor turns out to be zero-decked then I guess I need some BIG chambered heads.
 
IF it can be done with 10:1cr? well hell.... it can be done in a NA engine with 8.5:1cr.. no problem.
PS... you thinking backwards on this one..
 
if you swap out those pistons, will you sell them??
let me know they would be wicked in my sand drag 440 powerd scout
 
if you swap out those pistons, will you sell them??
let me know they would be wicked in my sand drag 440 powerd scout

I am in a holding pattern due to chassis issues. I will let you know when I get rolling again on the engine.
 
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