440 six pack pistons and some questions

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1930

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I literally spend half a day trying to find pistons, long story short No-One had anything worthwhile, finally the guy at united gave me a L2355F.30 and said these were good pistons, comparable to what he initially suggested to me ( that was currently manufactured from unobtanium )

I bought these on E-bay, item # 190856082388

No I didnt want the cheapest piston, I was ready to lay out for some JE pistons but there were non available 440 .030 over.

What can anyone say about these, considerations I need to take during my build?

Secondly why did I have to pay sales tax, hes in Tenn and Im in Florida, I payed it cause I figured that if I found out later it was a scam I could do something about it then.
 
Nothing wrong with the six pack piston besides being heavy. Used them in several builds never a failure. They are a pressed pin only piston. That's the big draw back.
 
I have them in two 440's .30 over no issues, yes heavy, heavier than todays modern pistons, but these were the standard some time back.....IM not buzz'in my motor at 6,500-7,000 very often if at all so...for me not an issue, depends on your intended use
 
could have waited a few weeks for JE to make some
My engine is at the machine shop now and has been there for about 4 months whilst I am trying get thing sorted out as far as my build, I didnt consider finding a piston for a 440 would be such a chore. They want it gone and I want it back so no waiting till the end of January and beibg told that it might not even happen by then wasnt something I wanted to deal with.

JE not in stock either, none made, I was told that it wouldnt be until sometime ( possibly ) the end of January that 440 pistons would be avail from anyone cause companies are cutting back on manufacturing to do their yearly inventory deal.

Im pretty ( assuming ) sure this is the same Marco at united that in the end suggested these six pack pistons and so again thanks. At least now I have something coming that is prob. as you said just as good as what you initially suggested. ( IE the Icon pistons )
 
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I literally spend half a day trying to find pistons, long story short No-One had anything worthwhile, finally the guy at united gave me a L2355F.30 and said these were good pistons, comparable to what he initially suggested to me ( that was currently manufactured from unobtanium )

I bought these on E-bay, item # 190856082388

No I didnt want the cheapest piston, I was ready to lay out for some JE pistons but there were non available 440 .030 over.

What can anyone say about these, considerations I need to take during my build?

Secondly why did I have to pay sales tax, hes in Tenn and Im in Florida, I payed it cause I figured that if I found out later it was a scam I could do something about it then.



As mentioned, weight, press fit, and these pistons have an offset pin, I believe. What kind of build is this, and what connecting rods are you using?
 
As mentioned, weight, press fit, and these pistons have an offset pin, I believe. What kind of build is this, and what connecting rods are you using?
Stock rods, 1978 engine bored .030 over, Lunatti cam, cant remember the specs off hand.......what does that mean offset pin?

I know what it sounds like it means and it sounds like trouble!

low RPM torque is my goal
 
Do they need to be forged for your app? Planning on spray or something? Low RPM's shouldn't pose a problem for any stock cast 10.0:1 slug,KB's etc., just curious.........
I ran the stk. cast 9.2:1 slugs in my 383, bangin' the 4gear at 6,600 w/a 125Hp shot of NOS, and I beat the piss out of that eng.! Just sayin'.....
 
Do they need to be forged for your app? Planning on spray or something? Low RPM's shouldn't pose a problem for any stock cast 10.0:1 slug,KB's etc., just curious.........
I ran the stk. cast 9.2:1 slugs in my 383, bangin' the 4gear at 6,600 w/a 125Hp shot of NOS, and I beat the piss out of that eng.! Just sayin'.....
No they do not but I was told that stock cast pistons in the compression range I wanted to be in were not avail.

Whats done is done, Im going to post here all the parts that Ive collected so far, Im sure that I could have done things differently, its tough figuring it all out unless someone is holding your hand so Im sure Ive made some mistakes.

Im a bodyman not a mechanic.

Id appreciate not hearing throw this out and buy this all over again cause chances are thats not gonna happen cause I work too hard for my money but tips on what I can do to make it all work as efficiently as possible would be appreciated.

Ok heres what I have so far:
1-78 440 block-cast crank, originally sitting in front of a 727 R.V.
I bought a new flywheel which I plan to have balanced along with the dampener, crank, rods and pistons
I plan to use stock connecting rods and the full floating wrist pins included with the piston set.
The block will be bored .030 over and Ive already been told to make sure that the machinest leaves .035-040 clearence in his final hone for piston expansion.

2- The L2355F-30 forged six pack pistons cause they were the only ones avail and anyway people seem to like them. I dont know what the valve relief dome CCs is that Wallers compression calc is asking for on these pistons, there are 4 valve reliefs, thats all I know at this point.

3-I plan to put this in front of an N.P 435 trans, dont know the gear ratio but I can get them if necessary, 1st is geared stupid low if that helps.

4-Lunati camshaft with specs below:
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet

Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,400-5,700

Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 220

Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 226

Duration at 050 inch Lift: 220 int./226 exh.

Advertised Intake Duration: 262

Advertised Exhaust Duration: 268

Advertised Duration: 262 int./268 exh.

Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.475 in.

Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.494 in.

Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.475 int./0.494 exh.

Lobe Separation (degrees): 112

Camshaft Gear Attachment: 3-bolt

5-N.O.S Pete Jackson noisy gear drive. Not changing this, its what I like and thats all that matters.

6- Cast heads ( 452s ) reconditioned with 2.19 X 1.88- 3/8 Stainless Steal Valve Stem oversized valves Stock valvetrain but Im open to nearly anything.

7- Probably the Edelbrock performer 440 intake only cause it came on one of my parts engines and I hate to just not use it but Im open to a better intake

8- carb I am not set on, performer intake came with a fairly new looking matching carb, know nothing about it other than it looks not too used and grimy or I can use the 800 or 850 carb that came on the 78 440 engine cause it also looks exceptionally clean and in good shape.

This is all going in an 5500-6000 pound 4 wheel drive A-body and I plan to drive the truck ( I mean A-body :) )to shows, on nice days, Itll run 4.10 gears and 37 inch tires which Id like to spin every now and then just to show off.

I plan to run P.S alt. and A.C

Hope I didnt miss anything and I look forward to any positive suggestions. Thanks
 
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On stock rods and those pistons I'd go with press fit pins, simple and bullet proof. Resize the big end with new rod bolts.
 
On stock rods and those pistons I'd go with press fit pins, simple and bullet proof. Resize the big end with new rod bolts.

They have no grooves for locks anyway, so press fit is the intended method. But, yes, have the rods recon'd
 
Speed Pro says .002" piston to wall clearance for that piston, and 7cc's for the valve notches. the performer is a great intake
 
No they do not but I was told that stock cast pistons in the compression range I wanted to be in were not avail.

Whats done is done, Im going to post here all the parts that Ive collected so far, Im sure that I could have done things differently, its tough figuring it all out unless someone is holding your hand so Im sure Ive made some mistakes.
Lol,haven't We all!
Im a bodyman not a mechanic.
Doing bodywork is a combo of mechanical & artistic skills, anyone who has done it or knows what it takes has a lot of respect for those who do it well.
Id appreciate not hearing throw this out and buy this all over again cause chances are thats not gonna happen cause I work too hard for my money but tips on what I can do to make it all work as efficiently as possible would be appreciated.

Ok heres what I have so far:
1-78 440 block-cast crank, originally sitting in front of a 727 R.V.
I bought a new flywheel which I plan to have balanced along with the dampener, crank, rods and pistons
I plan to use stock connecting rods and the full floating wrist pins included with the piston set.
That would add unnecessary expense for no benefit, use press in pins. Have the big ends reconditioned w/ARP rod bolts installed, THE single best investment
You can make to keep the bottom end solid.

The block will be bored .030 over and Ive already been told to make sure that the machinest leaves .035-040 clearence in his final hone for piston expansion.
That would be .0035-.0040", and yes, always be sure even tho' anyone performing the work knows to, s**t happens........be sure of that spec. yourself per the
manufacturer......could be .002"..^

2- The L2355F-30 forged six pack pistons cause they were the only ones avail and anyway people seem to like them. I dont know what the valve relief dome CCs is that Wallers compression calc is asking for on these pistons, there are 4 valve reliefs, thats all I know at this point.
Marco has You covered there.....
6- Cast heads ( 452s ) reconditioned with 2.19 X 1.88- 3/8 Stainless Steal Valve Stem oversized valves Stock valvetrain but Im open to nearly anything.
Don't do it, unless the headwork is being done by a mopar familiar/porter, stick/w 2.14 & 1.81's and make sure the bowl is hit w/a 75deg cut & blended. Never use
1.88 exh. valves in those heads, it is more than the port can accommodate properly, and more than is needed.

7- Probably the Edelbrock performer 440 intake only cause it came on one of my parts engines and I hate to just not use it but Im open to a better intake
For the RPM range You're targeting it is fine.........
8- carb I am not set on, performer intake came with a fairly new looking matching carb, know nothing about it other than it looks not too used and grimy or I can use the 800 or 850 carb that came on the 78 440 engine cause it also looks exceptionally clean and in good shape.
It may need some tuning, but may not, will certainly handle the task so if it ain't broke..........
This is all going in an 5500-6000 pound 4 wheel drive A-body and I plan to drive the truck ( I mean A-body :) )to shows, on nice days, Itll run 4.10 gears and 37 inch tires which Id like to spin every now and then just to show off.
You will want to talk to someone about the best torque converter for your combo........
I plan to run P.S alt. and A.C

Hope I didnt miss anything and I look forward to any positive suggestions. Thanks
Hope You found this helpful, good luck with your project in the new year!

P.S. crap, I forgot the new format, You will have to open Your own quote in My post here to
see the rest 1930..... :BangHead:
 
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On stock rods and those pistons I'd go with press fit pins, simple and bullet proof. Resize the big end with new rod bolts.
Im not sure I know what you mean, are you saying to not use the wrist pins that came with the pistons but to use something else instead?

What does it mean to resize, I understand that you suggest using a stronger ARP bolt, is there a specific one you can recommend?
 
Take a read through here:

'Pop's Engine' another 440 on the dyno.

If you're not familiar with reading IQ52's posts, he does LOTS of 440 stuff...this was his Pop's engine, and if I recall correctly, a 440 with those same pistons

I will check it out, thanks

Speed Pro says .002" piston to wall clearance for that piston, and 7cc's for the valve notches. the performer is a great intake
Ok great, so tell the machinist to leave .002 piston to wall clearance, got it
 
Hope You found this helpful, good luck with your project in the new year!

P.S. crap, I forgot the new format, You will have to open Your own quote in My post here to
see the rest 1930..... :BangHead:
It was helpful, heads were already purchased though and I am running a manual trans so no converter.
 
Im not sure I know what you mean, are you saying to not use the wrist pins that came with the pistons but to use something else instead?

What does it mean to resize, I understand that you suggest using a stronger ARP bolt, is there a specific one you can recommend?



Your pins should be fine. The machine shop will measure the pin/rod small end for press fit. When they install new rod bolts they'll resize the big end to assure perfect size for bearing crush.
 
Your pins should be fine. The machine shop will measure the pin/rod small end for press fit. When they install new rod bolts they'll resize the big end to assure perfect size for bearing crush.
Im not understanding the lingo, to mean when you say press fit it sounds like a tight fit..... a wrist pin that is tight somewhere, my wrist pin that came with the pistons are the floater style as far as I know, can you elaborate just so I understand in the future.

Edit: Ok I think I figured it out by reading some of the posts above, it sounds like some wrist pins are held within the piston with some sort of C-clip and the other style ( which would be mine ) are pressed into the piston/connecting rod assy

I have the 145-6002 rod bolts on their way, thanks again
 
Ok great, so tell the machinist to leave .002 piston to wall clearance, got it
Just give the pistons to your machinist, and let him do his job. If you run .002" clearance with a Speed Pro forged piston, it will not be happy.
 
Im not understanding the lingo, to mean when you say press fit it sounds like a tight fit..... a wrist pin that is tight somewhere, my wrist pin that came with the pistons are the floater style as far as I know, can you elaborate just so I understand in the future.

Edit: Ok I think I figured it out by reading some of the posts above, it sounds like some wrist pins are held within the piston with some sort of C-clip and the other style ( which would be mine ) are pressed into the piston/connecting rod assy

I have the 145-6002 rod bolts on their way, thanks again
Press fit pins are pressed into the small end of the rod, it is an interference fit, the pin is actually a few thousandths of an inch bigger than the small end bore.
Floating pins are free in both the rod and piston, hence the need for retaining clips.
The basics of resizing the big end comprises of taking a small amount off the rod/cap mating surface, installing the new fasteners, torquing them, then re-honing the end
round to the correct dimension.
So, these heads have been run before? Just curious where they came from.........
 
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