451 Stroker vs. 440 Stroker which one ???

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chuckstirrr

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451 is a 400 block, 60 over K&B pistons, 440 rods, 440 cast crank, I have read the block is stronger on the 400 and is 65 lighter than the 440, Ok 440 motor has a K&B stroker crank (it's my understanding it has a 5/8 longer throw)than the stock 440 crank, Hemi rods and 400 pistons, as for the rest of the motors I'll use the cam and heads on one or the other, roller cam Lunati 640 inch lift, roller rockers, steel heads with major port and polish work with lite weight valves 225 int. 188 exhaust, 400 motor will run a Weiand intake and 1050 cfm carb, the 440 will run a mopar M-1 intake with the the same carb,both motors will use the same headers hooker fender well, both motors will run gear drives and MSD Ignition and a 6 al box, same converter,trans,and gears, 4500 stall, low gear in 727 has been changed to a lower first gear, trans brake, 489 gears, will both motors be close in HP or will one of them be alot more in HP, I welcome all input, Thanks for all help
 
451 is a 400 block, 60 over K&B pistons
Click to expand...

a stock bore 400 w/a 440 crank is 444.2
.030 is 450.4
.060 is 456.6

Lets just start with the 2 engine displacements. Equal in parts minus the actual stroke of the crank, but same compression cam intake etc...

The 451 will out power the 440 with torque and HP just on cubes alone plus the rotating assembly is lighter, so it will rev up quicker.

Now your saying the 440 has a stroker crank (5/8 larger, what ever size that is) so it is now how many cubes?

Now the 440 has a lighter assembly for a quicker rev. (This is good.) I'll guess it is a 500 incher (Or close to it.)
Now the same thing applies to the stroked 440, over the 400 stroked to a 451. The 500 inch engine should out power the 451.

The interesting thing about stroking a 400 is that it takes a 4.14 stroke crank as well. That's if the main size available for it. IDK. Plus your starting with a bigger bore. I myself have not heard or seen good reports back on the Weiand. I think the M1 single is better. Check my thoughts.
 
There are issues with both setups, IMO. For me, the B wedge is the best platform given you have room for headers and intakes, it has the lighter rods, more stable pistons, and a better main structure.
In my opinion, the 440 should not be used unless the crank is inspected properly and judged safe to be repaired. But, in terms of assuming that it can, and is, the 520" is too much, needs a lot more head and camshaft, and has a wayy heavy bobweight, in addition to the weaker main webbing.
Additionally, The 8 3/4 will not survive against a trans brake launch for long, and the stall speed will be drastically different for each combination, and 4500 is not what you want for either.
 
The Hemi rods are heeeeeeeeeavy,good for paper weights.
I'm not sure they would last against a trans brake.
The M-1 is tried and true.
I have 4.56 gears in my 68 Dart launching at 4000 off the brake,
Car runs 9.50's @139 before the cam change.
The engine is a 499 low deck engine.

racecar.jpg


IMGP1126.jpg
 
the 400 block would be about 25lbs lighter ? and is stronger.
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm

but a 440 is sturdy enough if you upgrade the oiling system.

both will get the job done, it just depends on your budget. a cheapo stroker for the 400 is to get a steel 440 crank turned down to fit what you want, and you use BB chevy rods/pistons that are easy to find. however this crank wont be as durable as a purchased forged crank which is 4340 steel and is induction hardened. you just have to pay the $$$

here is the budget build
http://www.arengineering.com/articles/ttstroker.html
 
You have to make sure you get an early 400 block. The later versions had weak, windowed main bearing support webs and will come apart with the stroker setup.
 
To answer your question, more cubes equals more HP. But that does not mean more life of use. Which way to go depends on your goals. I like the 451 because you should get more life out of it with slightly less HP & weight.

From a test done on the dyno with a 383 by Car Craft, @ 5000 rpm the M1 put out 16 hp more than a Weiand Action Plus, and 10 HP more than a Weiand Team G.

From a strength of bottom end stand point, try and find a 400 block with part number ending in 4230. It is a heavy duty version made in 71.

Here is some information on the webbing of B vs RB blocks I got from 440 source. There is a lot of detailed explaination of these photos at that site that I have not included if you are interested.

First picture is a typical 440 RB block
Second picture is a typical 440 RB block built after 1976
Third picture is a typical B block (a 383 in this case)
Fourth picture is the 4230 Special 400 B block built in 71

As you can see there are not big differences in the first and third. And the post 76 440 had more beef. But it is obvious that the 4230 block is in a different league. This is why bracket racers run that block stroked to 451.

Ma Snart
 

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I have actually seen a late model 400 ci block with "windowed" main webs. I think I even have a picture of it somewhere.
That being said, I wasn't aware of that 4230 Special 400 block. Learn something new every day!
Was that a truck application or something?
 
The 440 has more cubes and a forged crank. I'd put my money on that one.
 
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