65 Barra Formula S brake question.

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Blue62Val

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Hi all,

so my 65 Formula S currently has original front drum brakes with a brake booster, and that vacuum box thing on the inner guard.

So...... if I was considering putting standard discs off perhaps a 66 model valiant or similar, am I simply able to source the discs and calipers and install one of those new dual master cylinders onto my existing booster unit ? I know 'd need a new junction piece, but will the master cylinder be OK with the existing booster ?

I actually have a set of discs and calipers in my shed, off an early V8 Australian Valiant and was considering the swap.

Thanks,

Peter
 
We do not know what master cylinder you have. Single or dual.
My 66 barracuda formula had 10” drums all the way around and I used an adjustable proportional valve when I converted to 73+ front disks and 73’+ 10” rear drums out back I also went 15/16” master with no booster and it stops like a lady
 
Going through this with my 65. It is hard finding all the pieces to convert over in one place. Some are selling calipers, some people have spindles, seems like I never see the shouldered caliper bolts. I'm going with Kanter's KH kit that utilizes my drum spindles.
I'm going to assume you are talking about you single circuit master cylinder. I ordered a 15/16" dual circuit for a 1973 Duster and already have the proportioning valve from a '73. Staying with manual master cylinder. My plan also includes an 8-3/4 swap with 10x1.75 drums and a trunnion delete.
Make sure you get a master cylinder with correct flare nut fitting sizes.
 
I'll assume your Barracuda was imported from the US (or Canada), since Chrysler Australia never produced Barracudas (TMK)...
I'll also assume your car remains left hand drive, and isn't one of the old imports that had to be converted over to RHD- if this is the case all bets are off.
What you have is not the North American Kelsey/Hayes setup, but I would imagine the Aussie (Girling?) discs and calipers would fit as long as you're swapping the entire spindle, rotor and caliper as a unit.
You'll need to source a master from North America, since the fittings would be on the wrong side with an Aussie (LHD) master cylinder. I would assume the 15/16 bore master would be preferable, but that's just a shot in the dark with the Girling calipers. And yes, the later double reservoir master will fit your current booster/vacuum tank setup- just make sure it's all in good shape.
As far as proportioning, I would just run a tee to the front brakes (from the rear reservoir) and plumb the rears with an adjustable proportioning valve from the front reservoir since I have no idea what your front/rear bias will be with your particular brake setup, and this will allow you to dial it in properly.
Maybe members @Cal Tonsley or @Dave999 can shed a little more precise info on swapping those front brakes.
 
[Damn too slow....again... :) ]

The Australian valiant parts will work provided you have some australian valiant disk spindles.
they take the same size taper as your current upper ball joints.

If you have VC VE or VF v8 disk brakes they will be 5 stud on 4 inch PCD hubs so will match the back axle. think its PBR kit
If you have Later Mid-VG to VK stuff it will be a 4.5 inch PDC hub. it will all still fit but you would need the front wheels as well and their PCD will mis match with the back...

check if you have 2 bolt or 4 bolt master cylinder and buy a disk and drum one from the closest year you can get, to your car, for the US plymouth/dodge A body

you need a master cylinder of old enough vintage to have the machining for the rubber retainer for the pushrod. You can get late ones off 90s trucks, that don't. they will physically fit the car but with no pushrod retainer I wouldn't.

you could fit an australian booster and australian master but the pipe outlets are on the wrong side on the master cylinder. A VG VH one would be appropriate, looks a bit more vintage.

I use the proportioning valve off a VK valiant. if you go looking for one it is hidden up on the bulkhead on the inside of the car under the sound deadening near where the rear brake pipe comes through from the engine bay... Works very well with 9 inch drums out back.
same set up as charger R/T, they just hid it....

If i still lived in Oz and had a 60s US A body and the money and the time

I'd convert the front to VJ calipers (Girlocks), this is the claw slider set up, (not the kelsey pin sliders used VG VH). and id run VG 4 inch PCD front hubs and rotors

and i'd probably get all of my rotors and pads from Sunbury brakes....

the earlier Fixed caliper VC VE VF stuff is also pretty good i thinks that's PBR stuff too early for me i'm a VH valiant man... but of the right era for your car.

i would steer clear of the CL CM light weight alloy caliper stuff. although some seem to love em...

Holdens and fords used the girlocks as well, if you buy from holden and ford places the cost is about 1/3rd less than your friendly mopar supplier.

cross reference brake stuff on Bendix.com.au use the part numbers you find, to find a holden place to buy your valiant stuff.... :)


Australia kept the US 1960s A body disc spindle all the way through to the end.
small ball joint small inner hub bearing regardless of PCD
they took a design from the US company at the time they needed it ,and if it wasn't broken.. never changed it. hence the 1960s A body Automatic floor pan/tunnel in everything, the square rear trans mount with 2 studs and the persistence with offset bolt for flywheel and balancer/pulley bolt holes.
if they did break it, it was modified and became a unique Australian market part. at least until Mitsubishi turned up


Dave
 
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install one of those new dual master cylinders onto my existing booster unit
If you are referring to new master cyl like sold by Dr Diff, they are typically 2 bolt mount, to mount them to our Mopars and adapter plate is used.

If your car was an import or made in Australia I recall that they got a unique master cyl.

If your mc is 2 bolt than a modern mc should work, if it's a 4 bolt than all bets are off.

Too many unknowns

Post photos of what you have now
 
Hi all,

so my 65 Formula S currently has original front drum brakes with a brake booster, and that vacuum box thing on the inner guard.

So...... if I was considering putting standard discs off perhaps a 66 model valiant or similar, am I simply able to source the discs and calipers and install one of those new dual master cylinders onto my existing booster unit ? I know 'd need a new junction piece, but will the master cylinder be OK with the existing booster ?

I actually have a set of discs and calipers in my shed, off an early V8 Australian Valiant and was considering the swap.

Thanks,

Peter
If yours is a U.S> version, a '67-76 disc brake master cylinder should bolt on to your Bendix booster. I may be biased, but, I hate those boosters. I'd rather go manual than use one. Nothing but trouble in my experience, plus that reservoir is just totally in the way and doesn't help the underhood (bonnet) looks.
 
Everyone……thanks very much for replying.

I have to apologise for the lack of info I provided….I didn’t even think to mention it’s currently got all original brake components, which includes the single pot master cylinder.

Yes……I imported my car from California at the beginning of the year.

Some of the points already mentioned I didn’t even consider….. stuff to to with brake rods etc. I did wonder if it was as simple as throw on the discs and spindles I have, grab a tandem master cylinder and away I go. I always intended getting a M.C from the States…..some on EBay look like they were made especially for what I want. For some reason I wondered if I “shouldn’t” use a booster if going discs.

My only reason for considering discs is they simply play a bit better than drums, but I can certainly live with drums.

Genuinely appreciate the detailed replies. The car is apart now, but I’ve got pics of the original setup which I’ll post when I get home.
 
I have to apologise for the lack of info I provided….I didn’t even think to mention it’s currently got all original brake components, which includes the single pot master cylinder
A bit unclear...

You do or do not CURRENTLY have power brakes?

Since the brake components you currently have are original. Then you have a 4 bolt master.

Most any year 67-76 A body disk drum master can work. I say can as some have a smaller or larger piston bore dia than others and the pedal force will be different one to the other.

If you do decide to go power (not needed, my 67 dart is factory front disk and manual brakes) the bore dia is moot.
 
A bit unclear...

You do or do not CURRENTLY have power brakes?

Since the brake components you currently have are original. Then you have a 4 bolt master.

Most any year 67-76 A body disk drum master can work. I say can as some have a smaller or larger piston bore dia than others and the pedal force will be different one to the other.

If you do decide to go power (not needed, my 67 dart is factory front disk and manual brakes) the bore dia is moot.
No disrespect, but it's clear as day. First line of his first post:
so my 65 Formula S currently has original front drum brakes with a brake booster, and that vacuum box thing on the inner guard.
 

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