67 dart emissions

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HemiD@rt

HemiD@rt

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Hey guys any tips on adjusting the carb to make it run more lean? I took it in to emissions today and it was running too rich for them.

The carbon monoxide % was 5.91 and it is supposed to be 3.75


Thanks for your help.
 
So far as I'm concerned you guys in AZ should band together and start a class action lawsuit against the state. NO 67 or earlier car was ever speced for emissions except for the few 66/67 cars that were destined for sale in CA. In the rest of the 50 states, FEDERAL smog did not exist on any car until 68, except for PCV which was all cars around 63 or so.

In other words the state is trying to require something that never was

Having said that, get the engine good and warm, retard the timing some, and set the idle with a vacuum gauge or tach for highest RPM or vacuum, then equally turn the screws in (cw) about a 1/8T at a time until the vacuum/ speed just starts to drop.

If you can, find a friendly shop that will take a sniff at your tail pipe
 
67Dart273 said:
So far as I'm concerned you guys in AZ should band together and start a class action lawsuit against the state. NO 67 or earlier car was ever speced for emissions except for the few 66/67 cars that were destined for sale in CA. In the rest of the 50 states, FEDERAL smog did not exist on any car until 68, except for PCV which was all cars around 63 or so.

In other words the state is trying to require something that never was

Having said that, get the engine good and warm, retard the timing some, and set the idle with a vacuum gauge or tach for highest RPM or vacuum, then equally turn the screws in (cw) about a 1/8T at a time until the vacuum/ speed just starts to drop.

If you can, find a friendly shop that will take a sniff at your tail pipe
Click to expand...


Thanks. I took it to a couple shops and they wanted $100+ to even look at it...
 
I'm sure we will get it sorted out this weekend. I thought 67 was no emissions but it is 66 here in AZ
 
Wow, I'm out in Mass and they don't do emissions on mine. I guess there are states worse than Mass on regulations. I even had a State Tropper out here try to give me a ticket for seat belts till he relized I only
need lap belts on a 67. He stood behind my car while he wrote it up(said he had to write up everyone
he pulls over - not really a ticket) and my car was running very rich the whole time. I know he got a nose
full of gas fumes which was a bit amusing to me at the time.
 
berlins said:
Wow, I'm out in Mass and they don't do emissions on mine. I guess there are states worse than Mass on regulations. I even had a State Tropper out here try to give me a ticket for seat belts till he relized I only
need lap belts on a 67. He stood behind my car while he wrote it up(said he had to write up everyone
he pulls over - not really a ticket) and my car was running very rich the whole time. I know he got a nose
full of gas fumes which was a bit amusing to me at the time.
Click to expand...

Nice. Here are a couple pics of the engine. The guy I got it from said he put 360 heads on it an a new carb. Not sure how that affects the engine.

BFDA9C05-ED01-48AE-A6AD-470B258B4475-16146-00001180AF0C28E4.jpg

8E1523D4-E1FD-4D71-B4DA-AE17F4DA6621-16146-00001180B2CC7DAE.jpg
 
Start with 67dart's advice and for god's sake get a battery hold down on there.
 
HemiD@rt said:
I'm sure we will get it sorted out this weekend. I thought 67 was no emissions but it is 66 here in AZ
Click to expand...

That's exactly my point. It should NOT be 66 in AZ, because no cars HAD any emissions controls in 66 except for PCV, and the CA cars.

You guys down there need to get a grass roots deal together and raise hell with your state govt.

I'd bet if you added up ALL the 66/7 cars down there, there would not be many, and certainly not as many being driven everyday. Again, AZ is imagining requirements that "never existed."
 
I'm not positive on this, but, if this is the idle setting, find out what the highest idle rpm that is allowed for the test. It's not usually what the factory book says to run. Bump the idle rpm up to or very close to the max and live with it until the test is over.

Just make sure it's not off the idle circuit when you get done. Idle mix screws not changing vacuum/speed will be your hint.

Maybe one of the smog tech guys will chime in.
 
Try to get initial advance as high as possible, at least 10-12° BTDC. Limit total advance to 34° BTDC with correct advance plate or braze slots to limit travel. Set vacuum advance to maybe 55°. Make sure carburetor is perfect and there are no vacuum leaks. I got my '67 383 4 sp FB Cuda to meet California 1978 emissions standards with an Isky 284/484 cam and Carter TQ on a Cordoba intake manifold. Car got 15.5 MPG too. But had to sell the car when the HOA said I could have a car parked in the driveway for mor than 24 hours. Bummer. I would love to find out where that Cuda ended up. Sold in Martinez, CA in '96-97 time frame. Deep blue B7 FB with Black interior, fully restored.

Bob
 
do what crackedback recomended but do not do what RLF Cuda recomended. in fact you should try to retard the timing as much as you can stand it if what crackedback says wasnt enough. advancing the timing will increase the idle making the vac in the manifold go higher. this will pull harder on the idle curcuit and make it go richer. you could then lean it back down but you will only get close to were you are now. setting the idle higher ill force the idle curcit to loose some vac signal and max out the idle curcit affectivley making it go lean. i know im a little late to this thread but you may as well learn the truth and why it works
 
Register your car up here in Prescott Arizona.
No smog chk at all here.
My brother used to live in Phoenix, but he registered his cars to my address.
 
I have easily passed emissions with many older cars. I set ignition timing to about 14 degrees BTDC with vacuum advance connected. With car off check the idle screw settings. This is done by counting turns of each to fully in, small screw driver. Do not over tighten, it will deform the idle passage. If the turns do not match then, split the difference and open each the same. An example, Left 1.5 turns, right 2, then open each 1.75 turns. This gives you a starting point.

When the engine is fully warm. This is 10 + miles of driving and choke fully open. Adjust idle mixture with tach, for maximum idle using the same small increase on both. I use 1/8 turns. Re-adjust curb idle (throttle stop) to normal specification plus 30 RPM. Repeat mixture adjust, it changes with respect to curb setting. Then screw in mixture screws, to reduce RPM by 30 RPM (the correct curb idle), with equal turns of mixture screws. It might not take much, perhaps 1/8 to 1/4 turn.

The curbing of idle with mixture results in a slightly lean mixture, decreasing CO. To lean excessively leads to misfire and increased HC. The emissions is a compromise between the two.

A good running older engine will run well at CO of 1%, if the limit is 3.75% there is good margin.

When going for the test, make sure the car is fully warmed up, do not shut off in the waiting line.
 
in 1967 the fed government had NO emissions specs. so a stock car had ONLY a PCV required. the first emissions was in 1968, mostly lean idle. i was there, in auto school. how my car is set up is NOT any of there bushiness!!!!!!!!
 
CrackedBack, I'm having a hard time following/ reading your post with that girl jumping up and down. I have a one track mind and that makes it jump track!
 
simple solution, I live in Maricopa county and if you put collector car insurance on your car you dont have to have emission inspections
 
67dart273 is RIGHT. the fed gov had NO emissions spesc for 1967. i even have a factory paper service manual i can use to prove this. i was in high school then, we studied this. we found out 1968 was the FIRST year for lean idle. in 1968 was the first year for the AVS carb, with lean idle. most AVSs will give a flat spot off idle. however i can fix the flat spot. you might try putting some methanol in the gas, about 3-5 gal methanol in 7-8 gal of gas. it will run bad, but you have a better chance to pass. or use some E85
 
SINCE the emissions laws have been pointed out 30 times in the thread.. MAYBE it's time to move past that point and actually help the guy - especially since he hasn't responded

The motor is obviously running rich..

Is the motor stock besides the 4bbl/360 heads? What carb does it have? A good tuned engine will likely pass - OOTB carbs need to be tuned period

1. check your fuel/ignition/exhaust systems for less than nice parts- replace less than nice parts if necessary - be sure your ignition system is up to par (gaped plugs, cleanish cap and rotor, ect..)

2. check the initial timing (disconnect the vacuum advance hose and plug hose- (VA)

set it to 10-12* like suggested - to check total timing - rev the motor to 2,500rpm or so

IF the motor don't have a VA or it don't work (plug up the hose)- set total timing to suggested 34* @like 2,500rpm

3. tuning the carb idle settings depends on the carb (Holley/Edelbrock)- but you will need a vacuum gauge that reads over 20"hg - with the engine running-

Set initial/total timing, set idle speed to 750-800rpm, check for vacuum leaks (I spray brake cleaner around the carb ports/intake gasket/ports areas), hook vacuum gauge to direct manifold vacuum- engine running- write down the vacuum reading you get just starting it after doing above.

shut the motor off - count turns on the mixture screws turning them in (be careful not to damage the seats when they bottom out) write down the turns made (I do 1/2 turn at a time) NOW turn them out 1.5 turns- that is your base setting

NOW start it back up - if it don't start or idle on it's own turn them out another 1/2 to 1 turn -while the engine is running on it's own now- read the vacuum gauge and write it's reading down- now adjust for the highest possible hg(vacuum) reading you can get - just be sure to adjust all mixture screws the equal amount

report back after this stuff or if you have trouble with this stuff
 
zac_F71 said:
now adjust for the highest possible hg(vacuum) reading you can get - just be sure to adjust all mixture screws the equal amount
Click to expand...

I can assure you that this is NOT the "cleanest" setting for "smog." Idle mixture has to be typically set on the "lean" side of the peak, with a small but noticeable drop in RPM/ vacuum.
 
i feel your pain bud... i cut the nuts off my 68 slant car every year...

also things to throw in...

back off lash to .050 if mechanical cam
jet to stumble
throw a cat on it
find someone with a sniffer to just see your numbers...


as far as the law it has been passed by AZ on 2009 but has been set aside as no lobbists have pushed the bill thru. motorcycle is going into effect in August.
 
Where in AZ are you? Used to live in Mesa, there was a few reasonable shops that would tweak it and see to it that it will get thru. The guy I used was on Main Street, kind of in the middle of Mesa. He was a big time Pontiac nut. Will try to remember his name....
 
You guys talk about giving a mechanic $100 to make adjustments get your car to pass is a crime! If the guy is good enough to do it, has the equipment & is willing to spend the time for you to get it to pass & make you legal again he deserves to get paid! It's money well spent! It's clear to me many of the guys here don't have a clue how to tune a car for lower emissions & many don't know for driveability sake either.

Over advancing the timing won't help it. If anything take some advance away from it. Later timing increases exhaust temperatures & helps reduce HC/CO. It may need to be leaned out a little too. You can guess at making these adjustments & keep wasting time in the Inspection lanes or break down & pay the guy with a gas analyszer to adjust it on the machine & actually see what's coming out of it. Have him make notes(or you can do it) of what your setting were before making any changes & after you get it to pass go back & reset everything the way you had it if you like it the way it runs now. 100 bucks isn't poop-squat when it comes to car hobbies!
 
Lonewolf3165 said:
You guys talk about giving a mechanic $100 to make adjustments get your car to pass is a crime! If the guy is good enough to do it, has the equipment & is willing to spend the time for you to get it to pass & make you legal again he deserves to get paid! It's money well spent! It's clear to me many of the guys here don't have a clue how to tune a car for lower emissions & many don't know for driveability sake either.

Over advancing the timing won't help it. If anything take some advance away from it. Later timing increases exhaust temperatures & helps reduce HC/CO. It may need to be leaned out a little too. You can guess at making these adjustments & keep wasting time in the Inspection lanes or break down & pay the guy with a gas analyszer to adjust it on the machine & actually see what's coming out of it. Have him make notes(or you can do it) of what your setting were before making any changes & after you get it to pass go back & reset everything the way you had it if you like it the way it runs now. 100 bucks isn't poop-squat when it comes to car hobbies!
Click to expand...

Si
 
I can tell you from experience that if you take it to a shop they will set it up to pass take it through for you and when they come back set everything back where it was and not tell you anything. I found that with my old F250 the timing had to be set at factory specs and the carb leaned. If you take it to a shop take it somewhere were they will tell you how to set it up or you will be paying $100 every year. Where in AZ are you, may be able to help.
 
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