67 Fastback Engine Bay Measurements

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1badfish67

1badfish67

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Restoring a 67 fastback. Someone had been drag racing the car so had cut big holes in inner fenders for header dumps. I have received my inner fenders from AMD and was taking initial measurements of the engine bay when I realized " This thing isn't anywhere near symmetrical"! The bay obviously narrows as you move toward the radiator support. No big deal. When I measured from the firewall to the radiator support on each side, there is about 3/8" difference? When I measure the diagonals, there is 5/8" difference?

I have a separate 67 parts car and performed the same measurements on it. To my surprise it was the same way. Nowhere near symmetrical. The differences between the measurements on the parts car were even different.

My question is this, when installing the new inner fenders should I make the bay symmetrical of make it like it was from the factory, crooked as a dogs leg?
I guess that is what shims are for but man you would think someone would have standardized a jig for this at the factory(s).
Any ideas and advice is appreciated. Already have old fenders out and awaiting welding new ones in place.

*note: I asked this question several months ago but started school again and had no time for the car. Someone probably replied but couldn't find old post.
 
1badfish67 said:
Restoring a 67 fastback. Someone had been drag racing the car so had cut big holes in inner fenders for header dumps. I have received my inner fenders from AMD and was taking initial measurements of the engine bay when I realized " This thing isn't anywhere near symmetrical"! The bay obviously narrows as you move toward the radiator support. No big deal. When I measured from the firewall to the radiator support on each side, there is about 3/8" difference? When I measure the diagonals, there is 5/8" difference?

I have a separate 67 parts car and performed the same measurements on it. To my surprise it was the same way. Nowhere near symmetrical. The differences between the measurements on the parts car were even different.

My question is this, when installing the new inner fenders should I make the bay symmetrical of make it like it was from the factory, crooked as a dogs leg?
I guess that is what shims are for but man you would think someone would have standardized a jig for this at the factory(s).
Any ideas and advice is appreciated. Already have old fenders out and awaiting welding new ones in place.

*note: I asked this question several months ago but started school again and had no time for the car. Someone probably replied but couldn't find old post.
Click to expand...
 
I have the same problem only the 67 FB I'm restoring was wrecked and the whole front end is missing except for the framerails and the motor and pass side frame rail is bent. I have found frame diagram that help with the frame part but can't find any books or diagrams for body parts I need help too!
 
Ill make some measurements for you. Mine has probably had some damage at one point as well so take it with a grain. when I measure from firewall/cowl to radiator support it measures 37.75 inches +/- 1/8". When I "X" measure from the pinch weld that meets the inner fender and joins the cowl piece to the firewall over to the same point that I measured on radiator support I get 62.25 +/- 1/8". So the engine bay seems pretty square but I do not have the fenders completely bolted up and that may sway my measurements. This car is still being put together and I believe that with so much new metal I see it could very well have been reworked.

I hope this helps, let me know if you need some other measurements. If you need an idea of what state the car is in I have some garage photos you could check out. If you have a drivers side lower rear quarter patch...Im looking. Seattle.
 
clementine said:
Ill make some measurements for you. Mine has probably had some damage at one point as well so take it with a grain. when I measure from firewall/cowl to radiator support it measures 37.75 inches +/- 1/8". When I "X" measure from the pinch weld that meets the inner fender and joins the cowl piece to the firewall over to the same point that I measured on radiator support I get 62.25 +/- 1/8". So the engine bay seems pretty square but I do not have the fenders completely bolted up and that may sway my measurements. This car is still being put together and I believe that with so much new metal I see it could very well have been reworked.

I hope this helps, let me know if you need some other measurements. If you need an idea of what state the car is in I have some garage photos you could check out. If you have a drivers side lower rear quarter patch...Im looking. Seattle.
Click to expand...
Thanks that will give some measurements to go by.
 
Thanks clementine. Did you get 62.25" across both diagonals? Just want to make sure I understand correctly. My restore car had also been tagged in the drivers front fender. Looked to have been hit right at the headlight.
That's what I originally was the cause of my differing measurements but the parts car I have has no signs of such damage. My parts car doesn't have outer fenders on it either.
I will prefit/clamp the new inner fenders in place and take new measurements again.

You wouldn't happen to know anyone with a good driver front fender for a 67 FB? Person might take a 68-69 and just weld up the reflector/signal light holes? Not sure though? I will check the rear Quarter on parts car, I won't need it?

Thanks again
 
1badfish67 said:
Thanks clementine. Did you get 62.25" across both diagonals? Just want to make sure I understand correctly. My restore car had also been tagged in the drivers front fender. Looked to have been hit right at the headlight.
That's what I originally was the cause of my differing measurements but the parts car I have has no signs of such damage. My parts car doesn't have outer fenders on it either.
I will prefit/clamp the new inner fenders in place and take new measurements again.

You wouldn't happen to know anyone with a good driver front fender for a 67 FB? Person might take a 68-69 and just weld up the reflector/signal light holes? Not sure though? I will check the rear Quarter on parts car, I won't need it?

Thanks again
Click to expand...
I got 62 and 5/16 on the measurement from drivers side pinch weld to passenger radiator and 62 1/4 on passenger pinch to drivers rad. If your whip got pushed in on the drivers side your drivers pinch to pass rad measurement will be longer if it was not straightened. Putting the car up on stands and using a plum bob to mark the floor at strategic land marks that are known to be the same from pass side to drivers side (end of frame in rear, sub frame ends etc etc) and then make your box measurements to see if the whole car is square could be time well spent. Just a suggestion. I had to do that on a 32 rat rod to get the diff in straight.
 
clementine said:
I got 62 and 5/16 on the measurement from drivers side pinch weld to passenger radiator and 62 1/4 on passenger pinch to drivers rad. If your whip got pushed in on the drivers side your drivers pinch to pass rad measurement will be longer if it was not straightened. Putting the car up on stands and using a plum bob to mark the floor at strategic land marks that are known to be the same from pass side to drivers side (end of frame in rear, sub frame ends etc etc) and then make your box measurements to see if the whole car is square could be time well spent. Just a suggestion. I had to do that on a 32 rat rod to get the diff in straight.
Click to expand...
 
I saw a good "how to" on a you tube site called SWRNC (southwest rod and customs, my friend Pete your friend Pete) of a good way to make a tram. Might take some digging but I found him to be quite skilled and entertaining.
 
I appreciate all of the information as I am new to Mopar. I went out yesterday to do a prefit on the inner panels. I started with the driver side. I was having trouble getting the indentations made in the panel for the upper control arms to line up with the fender resting on top of the shock tower as it should.
Low and behold I pulled the fender away from the shock tower and everything fell right in place. Only problem is, I can't pull it back on top of the shock tower and line the seams at thr radiator support.
So, I found one of the original panel and measured from the bottom edge up to where the bend is at the top where it starts going over the tower. The original measured 11-5/8". Taking the same measurement on the AMD panel was 10-1/4". 3/8" shorter! They started their bend 3/8" too soon. I really made a mistake here on these panel as I didn't do a firm pre-fit prior to drilling my spot weld holes. Lesson learned as I'm sure I couldn't get my $400.00 back for the pair. OUCH.
You all are probably veterans at knowing the best place to get stuff like this that will actually fit. I will find another manufacturer for any other panels that I need.

Clementine, I checked the quarter panels out on my parts car and both sides are rusted out, sorry.
Everyone have a good Friday.
 
No worries, Ill get something to work. I think that those AMD panels are supposed to be quality products. Maybe start splitting some differences on some gaps and that short panel will work. Stay positive. Its sometimes the only thing one has in this biz.
 
That's good advice. I think that splitting make work well enough. Not building a rocket ship here. Went to town and got materials to build that 'Tram' gauge from the video. Been looking around for front and rear window seals. Found a few but they say they are for 68-69 and to use on a 67 you must use 69 trimlock?
Anyone with any experience in this area? Paint guy wants to pull windshield and back window prior to painting but want to make sure seals are available to reinstall without leaking.
 
Leroy Duck said:
I have the same problem only the 67 FB I'm restoring was wrecked and the whole front end is missing except for the framerails and the motor and pass side frame rail is bent. I have found frame diagram that help with the frame part but can't find any books or diagrams for body parts I need help too!
Click to expand...

I have found it tough to find used body parts for the 67 FB as well. Need a driver front fender for for mine. Might try posting on the parts wanted section here on this forum if you haven't already. That's what I am going to try on the fender and center console.
You can find most of the engine bay panels. I had to order a new lower radiator support a few months ago go mine. I think they had most everything. I will see if I can find that manufacturer of the lower radiator support. It fit perfect with no adjustments needed.
 
You can find seals and trim through Classic Industries. For some reason, they cost 3X all the others. Cost of building a 7 instead of an 8 or 9.

Good luck.

1490496280524127877814.jpg
 
Got those inner fenders installed on the car. Looks pretty good. Thanks to all for the information, including measurements. Took me and a friend better part of a day to get them pre-fit for welding. We re-installed the front fenders and hood several times during the pre-fit process to try to make sure everything was looking alright. after all was pre-fit the diagonals were pretty darn close or at least less than 1/8 inch difference.

Couldn't have done it without your help. Really appreciate it. I have a new post on door hinge installation and re-alignment if you all have any ideas there? Installed bushing kits in upper hinges and bought what I thought were going to be OEM (No Bushing) lowers.

Thanks again
 
Challenger & Barracuda Restoration Guide 1967-1974 by Paul Herd
Anyone here have first hand knowledge of this book? Amazon reviews range from worthless to can't live without.
 
Daves69 said:
Challenger & Barracuda Restoration Guide 1967-1974 by Paul Herd
Anyone here have first hand knowledge of this book? Amazon reviews range from worthless to can't live without.
Click to expand...

There is useful stuff in this book, but it is more authoritative for E-bodies than A-bodies. I have found many errors and omissions in the A-body content. It does have handy part number lists for all kinds of components, like radiators, fans, etc. by year and application, so I do refer to it from time to time.

On the subject of the windshield gaskets, the difference is, the 67 used a silver-colored plastic "lockstrip" that ran in a groove in the rubber. In 68-69 they used stainless steel window trim, which looks hella better, but requires a different gasket AND drilling 40 or 50 holes around the perimeter for the little clips that hold in the stainless. This can only be done with the glass removed. If you are pulling the glass anyway it is well worth doing, as the plastic lockstrip will shrink, yellow and crack in short order. The issue is finding the stainless trim. The windshield trim is the same as a Dart hardtop (not sedan) but the rear window trim is obviously Barracuda-unique.
 
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