69 Dart Build: 383 vs 440 and why?

[67mprfan]

And, to be frank, if I was building your car on a budget.... I'd buy cheap b-body headers from Summit or jegs, and do what is necessary to make em work. I honestly don't know where, or how extensive interference is. I guess,I'd find out.

Here's a DS B-body header that was trying to go in a A-body

 

[Oldiron440]

I was going to say that you have the 3.55 gears now correct? So I would be thinking 4.10s with 27” slicks and I would push the duration to 240-250 and lift to as much as possible, usually aftermarket heads springs are good for 5.60 lift and use a solid roller.

 

[33IMP]

Here's a DS B-body header that was trying to go in a A-body

View attachment 1716545662


Thanks. Most of those dents wouldn't bother me, but that completely crushed one tube is a no-go. The question is if a different section of tube could be welded,in to get around whatever caused that interferance.
Can you tell us exactly WHERE the problem was? Steering gear, frame rails, or what?

 

[fishmens67]

I'd buy cheap b-body headers from Summit or jegs,

Hedman 78030 for the early big block b-bodies fit pretty good with a few minor dings on low deck in a 67 A-body with manual steering.
It may be the only b-body header that fits without beating the hell out of them.

 

[Pats69Dart]

Here's a DS B-body header that was trying to go in a A-body

View attachment 1716545662

View attachment 1716545663

This is ridiculous flow restriction and just destruction. Might as well had manifolds.

 

[fishmens67]

Here's a DS B-body header that was trying to go in a A-body

View attachment 1716545662

View attachment 1716545663

440? power steering? Don't know of any b-body header that would fit

 

[Turbo440Dart]

Use the bottom of the barrel motorhome 440 like @318willrun just used. He went mid/low 13s in a long bed truck. A dart would easily go high 12s with the same combo. Put a little unit on it and go much quicker.

 

[318willrun]

Use the bottom of the barrel motorhome 440 like @318willrun just used. He went mid/low 13s in a long bed truck. A dart would easily go high 12s with the same combo. Put a little unit on it and go much quicker.

13.2’s consistently, and that’s with over revving it and over gear in it. I would bet mid 12s in a abody with a 3.55 gears and shifting it at 4600 RPM

 

[Turbo440Dart]

13.2’s consistently, and that’s with over revving it and over gear in it. I would bet mid 12s in a abody with a 3.55 gears and shifting it at 4600 RPM

That combo with more than a broomstick in the cam tunnel would be an absolute ripper in an A body. All the money everyone is telling him to spend on a stroker, etc he could put NICE headers on it that fit and has gas money for a year.

 

[Killer6]

I'm trying to figure out how a 383 in a Dart w/aftermarket heads, headers, & a roller cam could avoid running 11's.....

 

[67mprfan]

Not sure where the problem was, A friend had these in his storage unit,

Unsure if the car had power steering or not.

I dropped the header off yesterday, My welder said he should be able to replace the tube,

I agree the other tubes I'm not too concerned about, my old headers, Hooker Super Comp rusted out on #7 tube, I'm just trying to get my car fixed and these were $50

 

[fishmens67]

I'm trying to figure out how a 383 in a Dart w/aftermarket heads, headers, & a roller cam could avoid running 11's.....

My 67 fastback was running 11.5 @ 115 with ported 915 heads in the late 70's, 557 solid, 3500 stall convertor, hooker fenders, 4.56 and slicks.
I cleaned up at the high school drags on a weekly basis.

 

[junkyardhero]

With 4000 converter, were you running a cooler? I don’t know at what point one is needed.

anything over stock a cooler is recommend. and even in a stock application i'd recommend one!

Im also trying to avoid fenderwell headers. Looks like TTI or Schumacher Tri-Y. Not sure what else fits.

tti's hands down. i have a low deck in my 68 dart and there is miles of room. even with the borg box.

If you can afford the tti , go that direction !
They're great. Sort of expensive but Schumacher really are for what they are.

agreed on the schumachers. they're nice, and they solve a bunch of headaches but i'd wager you're giving up a fair amount to the long tube tti's all around. also the schumachers are "only" good to "500" hp, so take that for what you will..

 

[fishmens67]

anything over stock a cooler is recommend.

The bigger the better.

 

[junkyardhero]

The bigger the better.

just like cams and titties! ;D

 

[Oldiron440]

My 67 fastback was running 11.5 @ 115 with ported 915 heads in the late 70's, 557 solid, 3500 stall convertor, hooker fenders, 4.56 and slicks.
I cleaned up at the high school drags on a weekly basis.

I’ve got that cam in a 440 with ported 452 heads 9.5 cr that made an easy 525hp and 545tq. It’s an engine I built back in the eighties and came across all the parts in a friends shop so we put it together and just for ***** and giggles put it on the dyno. It to ran 11.50 + or - depending on who was driving it. But I had 4.88s and a 4500 converter.

 

[TheRacerDave]

I was going to say that you have the 3.55 gears now correct? So I would be thinking 4.10s with 27” slicks and I would push the duration to 240-250 and lift to as much as possible, usually aftermarket heads springs are good for 5.60 lift and use a solid roller.

So it's an 8-3/4, right? Consider that you could have one carrier with streetable gears and a second carrier with a spool and track gears. It's like a 20 minute swap.

Add me to the 440 crowd. That 3.75" arm will give you all the torque you need at surprisingly low rpm. I tend to look at an engine's power producing potential in hp/ cu in. So if you make 1.0 hp/ cu in with either engine (easy) you're already 57 hp ahead of the 383 all else equal.

I have what I call my "nothing" motor that is a 440 +.030, 10.5:1, no fancy internals, Eddy RPMs un-ported, and a custom ground solid flat tappet Comp Cams (260/268 @ .050, 108°) designed to work with the Eddy's .600" lift limit. It made 534 hp @ 5500 and 563 ft/lbs @ 4500. I do have 1.6:1 roller rockers so I'm squeezing .640 lift out of it, but I wouldn't do that on a street/strip combo. The only thing I have that you may not want to use is a Super Victor single plane intake and a 1050 Dominator. But you could come close to those numbers with a dual plane and 4150 carb - and it's more than enough to put a Dart into the 12s. But if the car is right you'll probably skip right over the 12s into the 11s.

 

[mayhem]

Ive been doing tons of reading on other peoples 383 builds, but most are strokers like stock stroke isn’t enough.
Im not sure how far I should push my static compression. 10:1? 10.5? 11?
I know dynamic is more important, but thats resolvable with cam selection.

I know a retired tool repair machinist and former stock eliminator racer who is building stock stroke 383's with iron 915 heads and SFT cams that fly. I'd love to put you in touch with him so you could pick his brain a little. If you're interested, PM me here and I'll pass along his info.

 

[usp4u]

This is ridiculous flow restriction and just destruction. Might as well had manifolds.

It doesn't hurt power as much as you think.

 

[Killer6]

This is ridiculous flow restriction and just destruction. Might as well had manifolds.

Headers work because of pulse/rarefaction tuning, the gas is not dense, even with all of that ugly smashing it will still kill a set of mannys.

 

[MrCab]

Hey Guys,
Im struggling to make a decision and need input from guys who have the experience and can give the best choice of what to do to reach my goals.
Im currently gathering parts and making parts list of a build for my ‘69 Dart w/ ‘68 front clip that I picked up
in Ft. Worth.
l have both a 440 and a 383 block sitting in my garage.
Both have forged cranks.

The plan for the Dart is as follows:
- Cal tracs and split monos
- 8 3/4 with 3.55 or lower
- battery relocation and fuel cell
- 440 Source Stealth heads
- Roller Cam w/solid lifters
- Roller rockers or Ductile?
- frame connectors
- convert column shift to floor shift
- needs to remain Pump gas 91/93
- aluminum intake of some sort?

Im building this car to be a warmed up Street/Strip car capable of 12s or better.
I already have a stock ‘68 Satellite with 440 that I consider a fun cruiser.
I want the Dart meaner.
I have several friends who race Fords/Chevys and I want to be competitive.

Here’s my real issue,
Im not sure if the 383 is capable of making enough power and still be pump gas friendly.
I know that B engines with headers fit way better and turn RPMs faster.
I know that RB engines are capable to make way more power, but a nightmare to fit with headers.
I have manual steering/brakes.
I just turned 30, Married, and raising 2 boys, so my budget is somewhat limited and I have to buy everything 1 part at a time. Im not capable of buying every premium parts brands, I have to pinch every penny and do all the work.

Any and all recommendations are welcome and appreciated!
Thank you, -Pat Kelly

View attachment 1716544421

If I was you and I really wanted to put the locals in a tizzy, really bend them out of shape I would sell both motors and buy a good sonic tested 400 block and buy a 4.25 stroker crank with BB chevy size rod journals and low deck main bearing sizes, good set of BB Chevy type H beam rods either 6.700 or 6.800 long with set of custom made piston to make between 10.00 to up to 10.5 to 1 actual true compression ratio (with the Stealth Heads) depending on your actual altitude and lowest density altitude you will have when you drive it hard. Higher actual altitude and higher density altitude make it have higher comp ratio, 10 to 1 at sea level under70 F with 29.90 or higher barometric pressure. That is based on using 91 0r 92 octane (clear) with no alcohol in it
If you can and are willing to convert your car to E85 then make the comp ratio near 15.0 to 1 and make sure you buy really good engine parts and fuel system parts and a really good E85 1050 CFM or bigger dominator type E85 carb. (where is the grinning devil emoji when I need to add it on to here, (picture me grinning now)

 

[MrCab]

I don't why people piss all over the 383. Look up the history. They DOMINATED Stock Eliminator in the early to mid 1960s. Everybody just says go to the 440. I get it. Bigger motor and all that, but the 383 is extremely capable. Those who don't think so have either never seen a true original HP383 that was tuned well or they are too young. 383 Darts routinely KILLED big block Chevys and Fords on the drag strip back in the day. In the end, build what YOU want, not what any of us wants or suggests. You're the one who needs to be happy with it.

The 383 and all the stock Mopar production RB blocks including the 426 M.W. blocks have really thin main webbing; all the 400 blocks don't. If you're planning on making north of 500 HP on pump fuel and shifting it above 6000 RPM with a power adder don't use any of that stock 361, 383, 413, 426 or 440 blocks. My two cents.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Yeah. Ok.

 

[cookietruck]

Definitely better off the shelf piston selection for the 440.
That’s what i would build.

 

[harrisonm]

Properly prepped and ported Stealth heads would be plenty.

Stealth heads? Is that a brand name, or are you referring to porting stock heads.