Correct!
70 AAR rebuild…
- Thread starter Gayle’s340
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IMO, I think maybe he should have pulled it first, before he cut anything, but I believe how he's doing it, it's gonna come out the same.He's ambitious, but he needed a lot more new parts temporarily in place before welding those front frame rails up!
I hope it all lines up for him as he goes, but I'm sure he will learn a lot on this one!
Exactly.
All that's left of the original car is the rockers and the cowl. He replaced the floors, crossmembers, front rails, etc. And some some of that stuff wasn't even there to begin with, like the radiator support.
So as long as he's basing all of his locations off the factory measurements he should be ok. I'd start mocking up body fits as soon as possible and before I probably finished welding everything else, but you have to start from the rails and work out. The published factory dimensions are pretty much all based off the frame rail locations, you put those where you need them and then make sure you don't pull them out of whack as you add the rest of the structure.
Yunick13
2 Time FABO NASCAR champ 2023 FABO NHRA champ
Where's the frame table, or chassis jig?
A frame table would be easier no doubt, but it can be done with a bubble level, a plumb bob and some chalk lines. Takes more patience, but if you set up your references it works just fine.
Tolerances on the suspension points are only within a 1/4" from the factory.
...and a tape measure! lol
Cuda416
Well-Known Member
A little of both. The tolerances on those cars isn't all that great. If you can make things line up to where the chassis dimensions say, that's step one but aftermarket panels aren't perfect and often times need massaging for a good fit. So just doing the inner structure isn't always going to work out perfectly.
My car, a 70 Barracuda Vert is a mess. Not as bad a that AAR, mostly just rust, but a LOT is getting replaced when I get started. I built a beast of a universal jig for it and any other cars I might put on it later. Once I get things locked in place, it's not moving. Nothing will get welded together without mock up of some sort. One section at a time.
Man that is a lot of work. It's his car, time and money so go for if that is what floats his boat. Is it worth it? A nice AAR will bring 80K a day long. After he is done it will be a 50K AAR at best. Way to much repro parts to bring AAR money.
A few years ago at Carlisle a guy had a rolling 69 Charger body that was probably around 80% AMD and Goodmark metal. He was pissed that no one would give him 15K for if. I know, 15K for a Charger body with all the metal work done. Should sell in a heart beat right? I told him that no one probably wanted a Chinese Charger.
A few years ago at Carlisle a guy had a rolling 69 Charger body that was probably around 80% AMD and Goodmark metal. He was pissed that no one would give him 15K for if. I know, 15K for a Charger body with all the metal work done. Should sell in a heart beat right? I told him that no one probably wanted a Chinese Charger.
I'll bet he was appreciative of your unsolicited comment.
Mmmmmmmmm, not really. Thought he was going to throw something at me.
Would've been a proper response.
Probably would have been. I was just trying to be real.
I'm guessing you have little idea about how many cars have been fitted with parts from AMD and Goodmark.
I've been building 70-71 Cudas for over 20 years. Built several that sold north of 100K so I know very well. I wasn't trying be a dick but I've seen over and over again someone take a car like this AAR and put a ton of money and time into it thinking that they will get a ton of money out of it just because it's a Cuda or 2nd gen Charger. Usually doesn't work out well for them.
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And my comment wasn't really unsolicited. We were talking about the car and he couldn't understand why it wasn't selling. I just gave my opinion.
Also I've been selling original Mopar metal way before AMD and Goodmark started making the stuff.
That's a good source of original parts. Thanks for doing that. I'll say this though. Even original Mopar parts don't fit the same car to car, so it's a crap shoot, really either way.
Cuda Hunter
Well-Known Member
@moparmarks
Is that your carlisle location? What is your vendors spot number?
Is that your carlisle location? What is your vendors spot number?
That was my spots at Carlisle. Don't make the 2000 mile trip anymore. Just to hard on my old body any more. I was known as the Southwestern Desert sheet metal guy back then. Would haul 10-15,000 pounds of metal back east each year. My days of drilling out spot welds are over.
Even through these cars were puked together at the factory the repro stuff is much more of a crap shoot. Was told over and over again that my floors, frames, quarters pretty much just fell into place.
I won't use the Goodmark crap. Just too many hours coping edges and contours. The AMD stuff is much better but still a crap shoot. Used an AMD roof skin on a 70 Cuda and it fit like a glove. Used an AMD deck lid on a 71 Cuda and it took me 2 hours to fit it. Are you kidding me? 2 hours? Fitting a deck lid is a 10 min. job.
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I think it has a lot less to do with where the sheet metal came from than it does the amount of work done, and the potential for issues because of that.
If the shop doing the work is well known and everything is documented then a higher price will be paid. But if the shop doesn’t have an established reputation then people won’t want to pay as much because of all the potential issues that can come out of fitting that much metal.
The auction format can be part of it too, just because a local shop is known doesn’t mean anyone on eBay or BJ or whatever will recognize it. Could be a great car, but unless you get to do a really thorough inspection to check the work done it’s gonna limit what people will pay. No one wants a car that can’t be aligned or dog legs down the road.
In the case of this AAR I’m sure it won’t get top of the market money. It won’t be number matching no matter what, no drivetrain. The documentation could go either way, people want to see some fancy frame table or jig for that much work. That doesn’t mean you can’t get it right with a bubble level a plumb bob and projecting lines, it’s just geometry. And it certainly doesn’t mean you can’t screw it up while it’s sitting on some fancy sterile looking frame table. But people with deep pockets want to see the fancy jig or frame table because they think that’s what it takes.
The rest of it is just where you draw the line and how much you wanna pay. How many cars out there are 25% reproduction metal? How many are 40%? Is 40% ok and is 60% not? Even if the work is done with all original metal salvaged off some poor /6 car it’s still not factory work, and you can still screw it up.
I agree with you 72bluNblu. A lot of variables at play here and I'd love to see him save the car. A guy with the right talents could make this a nice car. I've just seen a many a guy with the Mopar dollar signs in their eyes be lead astray. Myself I'd only put that kind of work into a real Hemi car.
Totally. I really respect the effort to put the car back on the road, and it could be a nice car when he's done. But as you pointed out restorations on cars like that can be kind of a slippery slope. They sell for all that money because they're a "real" whatever they are. And at some point people can't wrap their head around it anymore. When he's done with that AAR, all that will be left of the original car is the cowl, rockers, doors and the b-post door jambs. Will anyone be able to see that as a "real" AAR anymore? I dunno. Technically it's got the VIN and door sticker, so it's a real AAR. But that's about all its got. It's a lot more work than a shade tree re-body and it's totally legal, but I don't know if the deep pockets will still consider it "real" enough to fork over the cash.
It's all in how you look at it...
Hyper_pak
Old School Chrysler Fan
Could have sworn I saw a number on a TA I looked at 30 years ago.
Long time ago, I have been mistaken before.
I also build Vettes. Ya I know. The Vette world is so much different then the Mopar world. Rebodies are accepted. In the Vette world numbers matching and original are NOT the same. I'm doing a 67 427 400HP Tri-power 4-spd right now. Just got a new Muncie M22 with the Vette vin stamped on it. Guess we can now say it is numbers matching but not original to the car. Total sin in the Mopar world.
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