727 Locked up while driving causes?

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Bret2094

Bret2094

Angry wrench enthusiast
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College Station , Texas
Today I was driving around my 72 Duster and pulled up to a stop sign, waited my turn at the 4 way and then took off in 1rst and got halfway through the intersection before my rear wheels came to a lock and that was all she wrote, it wouldnt go into neutral or anything.(not the parking brake or rear drums caused it) I had to wind up pulling the drive shaft so that the car moved freely and used my pickup with a tow dolly and come along to get it home. It seems to shift through the gears fine now, and the engine turns freely both in drive , neutral and reverse, along with the transmission. I did not mess with the linkage and hit very few bums so I am puzzled to its initial cause, and would not like to have it happen again. ANy thoughts or personal experience with this issue?



Bret
 
I have had bad luck with transgo. That's another story though. Did you try to get it it to roll in neutral with the engine shut off?

Has it been abused.....ever spun the tires in first and had them grab? The sprag clutch is a weak link and could have failed..

Only Google 727 torqeflite failure if you.want to scare yourself.
 
So after you shut the engine off you still were not able to push the car until you removed the driveshaft? But now it works?
 
Did you install the shifter yourself, or buy the car set up? Do you have headers,or exhaust manifolds? Is the cable outside color red, or black? Is it routed near pipes ,or in a crazy non loop setup? Aftermarket shifter cables, are very touchyupon setup. My thoughts....
 
I am really quite unfamiliar with the terminology and all and did not realize the transgo tf3 was a manual valve body kit.(google helps) It does indeed have a manual valve body kit in it, but it was installed by the p/o and I am unaware of the specifics.Many miseries in this car I have been addressing so its really a guessing game most of the time how would I go about checking if it was a transgo kit? Only mopar I own other than the 02 3500ram at the farm.


Bret
 
fishy68 said:
So after you shut the engine off you still were not able to push the car until you removed the driveshaft? But now it works?
Click to expand...


Shutting off the engine and putting the shifter in neutral did nothing to unlock the rear tires, so it got removed. turning the engine by hand at the harmonic balancer while in gears causes the remaining upper ujoint and shaft coming out of the transmission to move. I did not want to run the car in gear with the drive shaft out , but i assumed if it would spin by hand then I would be fine.




The shifter has a red cable going from the B&M to the trans and I have headman headers on the car.

Lol trying to give yall the needed info so bear with me, I had no idea what all to provide


Bret
 
fishy68 said:
So after you shut the engine off you still were not able to push the car until you removed the driveshaft? But now it works?
Click to expand...


Shutting off the engine and putting the shifter in neutral did nothing to unlock the rear tires, so it got removed. turning the engine by hand at the harmonic balancer while in gears causes the remaining upper ujoint and shaft coming out of the transmission to move. I did not want to run the car in gear with the drive shaft out , but i assumed if it would spin by hand then I would be fine.



Abodybomber said:
Did you install the shifter yourself, or buy the car set up? Do you have headers,or exhaust manifolds? Is the cable outside color red, or black? Is it routed near pipes ,or in a crazy non loop setup? Aftermarket shifter cables, are very touchyupon setup. My thoughts....
Click to expand...

The shifter has a red cable going from the B&M to the trans and I have headman headers on the car. Not sure on what you mean by a loop setup?

Lol trying to give yall the needed info so bear with me, I had no idea what all to provide. If pics wind up being needed, they will have to wait till morning as it is very dark now


Bret
 
My own personal experiences with TF3. I need to say that I have never heard anything else bad about them. It turns it into a full manual automatic.

Experience 1 - my 72 dart with warm 440 and 2800 to 3000 stall converter, 3.91 gears, vintage 78 transmission, non lock up. I am a fairly competent guy and have worked on transmissions my whole life. I installed the kit to a "t" as outlined in The instructions. The first outing with the car, I was standing in front of it, running and in park. I was setting the timing, had my light going and reached back to the carb and opened the throttle to watch the advance curve. Somewhere around converter stall speed the car came alive, jumped the park pawl and came at me. Shifter still in park......I rode the front bumper for a few feet until it pinned me and crushed my right femur.

Experience #2, my buddies duster race car, 440, fresh transmission with tf3, everything seemed fine until he made a few passes, then for no reason coming back down the return road it completely locks up the rear wheels as you describe. After screwing around bit it starts to work normally again and there are no more issues for two seasons.

Experience #3 - a good friend of an acquaintance of mine has a fully restored super bee, 69 or 70, with a warm bigblock and tf3 in the 727. The transmission was professionally done in a good shop. They also installed the tf3. He is sitting in the car, in his garage, running and in park. He brings the revs up and suddenly the car pushes through park and ends up going through the back wall of the garage. No one is hurt except the car and garage.

That is it, all I know. Like I said I have not heard any other bad experiences. It could just be me.
 
Bret2094 said:
Shutting off the engine and putting the shifter in neutral did nothing to unlock the rear tires, so it got removed. turning the engine by hand at the harmonic balancer while in gears causes the remaining upper ujoint and shaft coming out of the transmission to move. I did not want to run the car in gear with the drive shaft out , but i assumed if it would spin by hand then I would be fine. Bret
Click to expand...

Ok, but in your first post you also said

It seems to shift through the gears fine now, and the engine turns freely both in drive , neutral and reverse, along with the transmission.
Click to expand...

Am I reading that right that apparently you re-installed the driveshaft and it now works?

No, don't run it through the gears without a driveshaft in it.
 
fishy68 said:
Ok, but in your first post you also said



Am I reading that right that apparently you re-installed the driveshaft and it now works?

No, don't run it through the gears without a driveshaft in it.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that, I realize how that is confusing. I made an assumption that if the engine would turn without binding up and in gear, then I might be okay transmission wise. In the morning I will reinstall and see if in moves about as it should. I guess I was looking for things to be aware of and test while the drive shaft was out


Bret
 
.........Even with turning the motor by hand and the transmission locked up the drive shaft will not turn with a full manual valve body.......kim.......
 
@d55Dave... WOW! That is something else! Bad! I'am no trans expert, maybe I'd be ranked a novice. But looking at my service manual it seems the only way that could happen in park is if fluid leaked past the manual valve enough to pressurized the reverse circuit. And then revving it caused reverse to engage. But can that blow past the parking pawl? Maybe so for the same reason you can take it out of park while on a steep hill. Man,I gotta ask. Parking brake set? I always set em. All the way. Without even thinking about it. Sure messes up some people if they use a car after me. Hell,my belvedere doesn't even have a park. Must use parking brake! Hope you made a complete recovery! WOW!
 
Bret2094 said:
Shutting off the engine and putting the shifter in neutral did nothing to unlock the rear tires, so it got removed. turning the engine by hand at the harmonic balancer while in gears causes the remaining upper ujoint and shaft coming out of the transmission to move. I did not want to run the car in gear with the drive shaft out , but i assumed if it would spin by hand then I would be fine.




The shifter has a red cable going from the B&M to the trans and I have headman headers on the car.

Lol trying to give yall the needed info so bear with me, I had no idea what all to provide


Bret
Click to expand...

Fishy knows what he's talking about. If the engine is off and it still won't roll IT IS NOT a shifter / cable problem.

It's a drive train problem, locked up rear axle or an internal problem in the transmission.
 
67Dart273 said:
Fishy knows what he's talking about. If the engine is off and it still won't roll IT IS NOT a shifter / cable problem.

It's a drive train problem, locked up rear axle or an internal problem in the transmission.
Click to expand...

now wait a minute... off and not rolling is the same as on and not rolling.... not saying it the cable, BUT... if the cable has the trans in a not so good spot, it could be holdind things up.... im betting the rear
 
tarvin890 said:
now wait a minute... off and not rolling is the same as on and not rolling.... r
Click to expand...

That's correct however I was going by what the OP said below. In this case, "engine off" the only thing that could be happening "cable wise" is if the trans was somehow in park. This should be easy to figure out.

Bret2094 said:
Shutting off the engine and putting the shifter in neutral did nothing to unlock the rear tires,

Bret
Click to expand...
 
Just to answer an above question, I did not have the parking brake set. Took more than a day to get around to it, but I did reinstall the driveshaft and go fiddle with the linkage to make sure it was not in park, and attempted to drive the car down the driveway. Some really nasty grinding noises are coming from underneath that were not present while in neutral, so I think it is safe to say my trans is spent:eek:ops: .(without the driveshat, the rear tires roll fine when pushed ) For the last several months leading up to this disaster, I had been going back and forth with putting an a-833 OD in and converting everything to 4 speed, and I have a donor vehicle that a friend says I can have with all of the required stuff for the swap, except for a drive-shaft. Will I need a separate drive shaft, or will the one I have be the right length? I did not find an answer anywhere otherwise.



Thanks


Bret
 
904 and A body 4 speed or OD have same length

727 and B body 4 speed are same length
 
I used the turbo action pro street valve body set up. it works flawlessly! I had a stock valve body but shifts were slow and soggy! instead of figuring what holes to drill, just ordered T.A. valve body & was done with it.
 
In 34 yrs of working on torqueflite's I have seen all types of carnage but I have never ran across one doing what your describing. I wonder if it's something real simple like the parking pawl rod came unattached from the VB and is trying to apply the pawl?? That's the only thing I can think that would cause this. Would be real easy to tell by just dropping the pan.
 
fishy68 said:
In 34 yrs of working on torqueflite's I have seen all types of carnage but I have never ran across one doing what your describing. I wonder if it's something real simple like the parking pawl rod came unattached from the VB and is trying to apply the pawl?? That's the only thing I can think that would cause this. Would be real easy to tell by just dropping the pan.
Click to expand...


I'll pull the pan and give her a good look see, but while its not working correctly I decided to give the pan a good overhaul that it has desperately been needing.(already have the new one) Since we are on trans issues , I though I would show y'all this crap

11414459_911652812225553_611346550_n.jpg



A facebook group thought this was cut up for a manual gearbox? seems rigged like hell. With all of the shortcuts found , this car should have blown up by now lol.


Bret
 
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