8.8 Rear Axle, Couple Solutions

[FomocoReformed]

Ok so I finally managed to get all the brackets and junk off my axle tubes. Cut the drivers side today with my chop saw and even though I measured it a gazillion times I still cut it a little short. Not by much, but shorter than I wanted to.

It came out to around 3/16 too short, I'm guessing the width of the saw wheel took off more than I anticipated it would. Regardless, I have a few options I've come up but I'm not sure what the best idea would be, make your choices.

Option 1, I measured the bearing surface on the axle shaft itself and it looks like I've got about 4/16 of space from where the bearing originally would have sat before the bearing surface tapers down. I could probably weld my tube back together and get away with it having 1/16 to spare.

Option 2, leave a small 1/16 or 2/16 gap between the two pieces of tube, fill it in with weld. Would get me more comfortably close.

Option 3, try to shave a 3/16 spacer out of the chunk of tube I cut out already, weld that between the two halves. Probably going to be a PITA to actually cut. I'm expecting this to be very difficult to get straight and the welds on either side will probably just run into each other and eat up the spacer.

This is about what I'm working with here,

 

[73SwingerBuild]

If you can wait for me to get back from NY, I can give you a hand but I would leave a 1/16" or 1/8" gap between the tubes and weld it back together. A small gap is alright, since the weld wire fills it anyways.You won't notice the extra 1/16" discrepancy on the end. I might also add a small taper on the axle tubes so that the weld penetrates better. I wouldn't just weld on top.

The rear ends were not even centered that well from the factory, and you can center it wherever you want when you weld the perches on.

No worries Mon!

 

[FomocoReformed]

Well it's only making sure everything jives with the length of the axle shaft I have that I'm worried about. Already put a bevel on the cut off part with the bench grinder, gonna have to use the angle grinder on the rest of the housing. :thumbrig: I'm in no rush with this really, just want to be ready to put it in when the front wheels go on. :blob:

 

[jrlegacy23]

You could put a slug inside the two tubes, which will help keep it straight and be able to use it as a spacer. Then leave 1/8" gap which will naurally fill with weld when welded. The 1/16" left over with these axles, I would not worry too much with.

 

[RedFish]

Its been said that removing that long tube and axle completely and replacing it with the short tube and axle from another housing puts everything about this Ford unit right for our cars. If that is true it is another option to consider.

 

[jrlegacy23]

Its been said that removing that long tube and axle completely and replacing it with the short tube and axle from another housing puts everything about this Ford unit right for our cars. If that is true it is another option to consider.

Doing this put my axle right at 56.5" wide from WMS to WMS. It was from a 99 Explorer, came with disc brakes, 4.10 gears, a limited slip, sway bar, and driveshaft for $150.

 

[FomocoReformed]

That actually doesn't seem like a bad idea, I would do it if I had a way of getting another tube but I just don't have the time or desire to spend another two days digging another half buried axle out of the ground at the local yard. That was enough of a party the first time around squirming under a wrecked explorer held up by bent scissor jacks. Then I'd still have to get to the tube out once I actually freed the axle. Not to mention I know they wouldn't appreciate me cutting it up and taking part of the housing. I'm pretty much stuck with making this one work for now until I have more cash available haha

I did think about using a slug inside but I have no idea where to go about getting one of those, I was thinking of adding some reinforcement pieces to the outside of the tube.

 

[jrlegacy23]

I would contact a welding shop or machine shop. They could make you a slug easy enough. Bring the section that you cut out and ask them to make a slug that fits inside. Of course you would have to grind the seam down that is on the inside of the axle tubes for this to work.

 

[FomocoReformed]

Yeah that seam is gonna be a pain to get at, might just go with reinforcing the outside with some steel plate I've got lying around.

 

[73SwingerBuild]

Yeah that seam is gonna be a pain to get at, might just go with reinforcing the outside with some steel plate I've got lying around.

That's a negative ghost rider. I think we can do this easy enough.

Measure the I.D. of the axle tube and I can get a slug made for you for a few dollars, if any cost at all, at the local machine shop. I go there alot lol.

We can use an air grinder to file down the seam on the inside nice and easy. Then we can drill a few holes in the axle tube over the slug and plug weld it in there so it's held in place. The slug only needs to be about 2"-3" long, maybe 4"-5" for a little added strength.

It shouldn't take us more than a few hours to do it, once we get the slug. If you get me that I.D. I can call the machine shop and have them make it up. Do you have any digital calipers?

 

[FomocoReformed]

Roger captain. I got a caliper I'll grab the ID in the morning. Might have to do some shuffling around to get an air grinder in there, my compressor can run an impact gun for like... 5 seconds. lol

 

[Woods74]

Damn you guys are making it difficult. I can smell the hair burning from all the over-thinking in here. ](*,)

Bevel your cuts around where your going to weld, line and clock the piece as straight as you can, tack weld in in 3 or 4 spots around the housing, then fill the gap with a nice bead, if you have problems stick a brass or aluminum backer inside as you weld with a 90 degree needle nose plier or a stick or something and call it a day. Done deal. Don't look back.

Remember all axles are far from rocket ships from the factory.

 

[73SwingerBuild]

Damn you guys are making it difficult. I can smell the hair burning from all the over-thinking in here. ](*,)

Bevel your cuts around where your going to weld, line and clock the piece as straight as you can, tack weld in in 3 or 4 spots around the housing, then fill the gap with a nice bead, if you have problems stick a brass or aluminum backer inside as you weld with a 90 degree needle nose plier or a stick or something and call it a day. Done deal. Don't look back.

Remember all axles are far from rocket ships from the factory.

Lol, I'm an engineer, we're supposed to overthink things.

I note your suggestions, but it gets tough filling a gap with weld when the gap exceeds the thickness of the wire by too much. We're welding with 0.030" wire, since that is what the welder is set up for. It's tough to fill more than a 1/16" gap with that wire. I honestly might just do that though. With 1/16" missing from both ends, you won't even notice the difference. Also, the axle ends will have disc brake rotors on them, which are thicker than the drums are on the axle facing, so the wheels will be in pretty much the same place.

I definitely agree with you regarding how well these things were measured/lined up from the factory. Far from NASA specs lol.

Eric,
Let's look at this when I get back from NY and figure out the easiest way to go about it. Or you figure it out and I'll just lay some bead. Either way, you're driving this car come Spring time!!!

 

[FomocoReformed]

Well I guess this is gonna be anyone's guess till the last minute haha, sounds typical of my projects. We'll take a look at it and see what happens.

 

[68DartProject]

Option 2

I would go with putting the proper gap back in it and then bevel to 28 to 30 degree angle make my landing 3/32" and buy a set of alignment pliers to square things up nicely. Weld with a 3/32 6010 +++++ P rods. Something in the order of a good stick machine and if it's thin wall you just have to move a little faster not to blow out. Be no different than welding up a pipe line. When you hear the echo through the tube you know the root pass is going in right. Then make a couple hot passes and cap over, grind down and bam your done and it will be strong. Wish you was closer would have it zipped up in just a few min.

 

[Idaho]

Sorry, gotta ask the obvious - what are alignment pliers?

 

[68DartProject]

Sorry, gotta ask the obvious - what are alignment pliers?

Here is a site that has plenty of them. Some call them alignment clamps

http://www.buy.com/th/locking-welding-clamp.html

 

[Supershafts]

Lol, I'm an engineer, we're supposed to overthink things.

Did you fail engineering or this seemed like a good idea ? You never make alterations to a rear at the center of the tube.

Also don't leave a gap, you bevel the mating areas and have them touching eachother


Option 4 see a professional before you get yourself or a passenger killed, had a guy do that here too, get a passenger killed doing EXACTLY what you are doing...

.

 

[68DartProject]

Quote:
Orininally Posted by Supershafts
Also don't leave a gap, you bevel the mating areas and have them touching eachother


Never heard of this. You will not get the full penetration and a good root pass if they touch. Here is another site that explains welding. Your gap is the size rod minus the flux.

http://www.gowelding.org/Pipe_Welding_6G_SMAW_Certification.html

Please go to a knowledgeable welder to have your work done if it's out of your realm.

 

[OldmanRick]

Thanks for posting here Supershafts. I've been watching this thread from the git go and decided not to post. Twice i've seen this tried to shorten axles to try and keep the original end's for street rod's and both times cracks developed after a few street miles. Fortunetely they were caught early. I can tack, but i'm no certified welder or engineer so i thought i would stay out of it.

 

[jrlegacy23]

Here is what I had done, no issues. I also had a professional welder tig it together. Note: he is a perfectionist with OCD, bevelled the edges, and left a small gap:

 

[73SwingerBuild]

Quote:
Orininally Posted by Supershafts
Also don't leave a gap, you bevel the mating areas and have them touching eachother


Never heard of this. You will not get the full penetration and a good root pass if they touch. Here is another site that explains welding. Your gap is the size rod minus the flux.

http://www.gowelding.org/Pipe_Welding_6G_SMAW_Certification.html

Please go to a knowledgeable welder to have your work done if it's out of your realm.

Thank you for providing a better explanation on the gap. While I knew there needed to be a gap, that explains it in better detail than I could.

All jokes aside here, the axle will not be going in the car unless all parties involved feel comfortable with the welds used to hold it together. I will not weld it together unless I have the corect setup and all of the sepcifications for the welded area have been checked.

I don't think insulting my intelligence or the nature of how I achieved my degree was necessary, but you can say what you want. I suppose that's why we have a forum here. I am assuming you were trying to get your point across about how important a strong weld is in such a situation, and I'll go with that since I agree.

Eric,
I will be around almost every night next week so we can meet up and figure this out. Let me know when is good for you.

 

[Supershafts]

Quote:
Orininally Posted by Supershafts
Also don't leave a gap, you bevel the mating areas and have them touching eachother


Never heard of this. You will not get the full penetration and a good root pass if they touch. Here is another site that explains welding. Your gap is the size rod minus the flux.

http://www.gowelding.org/Pipe_Welding_6G_SMAW_Certification.html

Please go to a knowledgeable welder to have your work done if it's out of your realm.

Unless you're rear is now becoming a steam pipe or some other heat supply or return pipe the above is correct.

If you can't make a good weld with two pieces joined at a bevel and being held true touching, you should MOST DEFINITELY not be doing this procedure.

Here is what I had done, no issues. I also had a professional welder tig it together. Note: he is a perfectionist with OCD, bevelled the edges, and left a small gap:

That is not how to do a rear axle, that will insure something is off and not true, they must be held at center and from the center section main bores to the end bearing.

Thank you for providing a better explanation on the gap. While I knew there needed to be a gap, that explains it in better detail than I could.

All jokes aside here, the axle will not be going in the car unless all parties involved feel comfortable with the welds used to hold it together. I will not weld it together unless I have the corect setup and all of the sepcifications for the welded area have been checked.

I don't think insulting my intelligence or the nature of how I achieved my degree was necessary, but you can say what you want. I suppose that's why we have a forum here. I am assuming you were trying to get your point across about how important a strong weld is in such a situation, and I'll go with that since I agree.

Eric,
I will be around almost every night next week so we can meet up and figure this out. Let me know when is good for you.

I didn't say i was an engineer and overthinking it, i just pointed out the statement you made and hope you read the last part of my post.

You seem to not be over thinking other people may be in the car like a person from this area did when the car broke the axle from improper alignment and the passenger door impacted a tree which smashed his sons skull.
He saved himself $250

.

 

[68DartProject]

I don't think insulting my intelligence or the nature of how I achieved my degree was necessary, .

I wasn't insulting you on your intelligence. The last statement I made in my comment was meant for the gentleman that started the thread in asking the question on what to do. I think most have given pretty good advice. And yes all I was trying to do is focus on the safety portion on how it needs to be done correctly.

 

[Woods74]

Boy ol' Supershafts is having a naysaying heyday isn't he? Deyam dude.

Hey, look welds are always stronger than the base material. I really don't see how this is a issue, besides filling the gap, lot of folks have just done it. Cut it, beveled it, tossed a fat arc 7013 or wire feed weld into it, cleaned it up and called it, no problems, no drama, no breakage, including myself.

Hell the axle shaft spins more freely in the side I modified. OMFG.... Things didn't go perfectly at first, and I didn't use a straight edge either..... C'mon guys.

There is such a thing as too much jackin' the jaws, and not enough doing, and there is a saying in engineering, K.I.S.S. keep it simple man.

The whole "OMG WERE GONNA DIEEZZZ" is taking it too far. If you take as much time making sure the alignment you do is good, as you did chatting about it on a car fourm, you should be in good shape.

Supershafts, you made your point, now quit hogging the soapbox, unless you have a more detailed response on how to positively move on with the OP's project. Some nice pictures of a straight axle jig, or maybe even a good weld process, would be great.

Thanks!