A body prices

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AdamR

AdamR

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Has anyone else notice the ridiculous prices lately ?

I all ways browse the cars for sale, Mostly Ebay, Cars on line.com and Moparts and some of the prices people are asking are just crazy.

Im going to brake down what I have seen by price.

$30,000
Theres a few Darts that have been on and off ebay for months priced at $30,000, The are being sold by dealers that likely over paid for them to begin with. Chances are if they havent sold in the last 6 months its because your way over priced. I know what it costs to restore these cars correctly but unfortunately that doesnt make the car worth $30,000 when done.

The only way I see a a body worth $30,000 would be a 100% correctly restored 383 4 speed car or a very, very nice low millage original car and that may even be pushing. (yes 440 and Hemi cars are worth a bit more but are much more rare.)

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/5573362-68DartGTS083-rs.jpg

$12,000 - $20,000.
This is were I feel a correctly done, very well restored and detailed 340-360 car should be with the earlier cars at the top and the 73 and 74 at the bottom of the ladder. Again, This is very nicely restored meaning the car is correctly detailed top and bottom. or a mostly original car in need of some celaning and detailing.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/5615408-IMG_1828.JPG

$8000-$12000.
This is the bracket that %90 of the cars you see at cruise night should be at. Nice paint and trim, Clean engine and interior. Bottom of the car not detailed. Probably some aftermarket parts, headers carb air cleaner, Or even a nicely modified ride. Sorry guys a stock car will all ways bring more money then a modified car one no matter how nice of a job you do and Race cars are even harder to sell so the further from stock you go, The harder to sell the car. I speak from experience.

This also seem to be the bracket that most people have trouble pricing and most of these cars end up being advertised in the $12,000 to $20,000 range.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/5602699-BILD0458.JPG


$2500-$8000
This is were you should find a real clean desirable resto or unfinished project car, A nice driver in need of some touching up or a clean slant 6 or 318 car.

Theres no reason to find rusted out junk at this price range.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/5611101-74DartSport001.JPG

$1000 to $2500
I dont understand why you shouldnt be able to find a restorable project car in this range. I paid $2000 for my Scamp, 100% body, interior only needing a carpet and front seat cover. The car needed a drivetrain. This is also the price range that my Dart was in. A complete car that needed paint and reassembly.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/5617856-68Cuda3a.jpg

$0-$1000
This is part car territory.If your asking for more then this for a parts car, there better be cash in the glove box.

http://www.tonysparts.com/PicPost/74 DART LEFT (Medium).JPG

Of coarse location will often play a role in price here on the east coast you have a much smaller chance of finding a low priced rust free car so we often pay more for an entry level car however this should have less effect on the higher priced cars because any rust issues should be taken car of.
 
There's an original paint (In violet) 1971 340 Duster, auto for sale locally.
It was a magazine cover car, with 35,000 original miles.
He's asking $45K. Can. for it, exchange rate is about 5% now.

http://www.legendarymotorcar.com/site/10060

This is what you have to pay, for entry level muscle cars nowadays.
 
340butterduster said:
There's an original paint (In violet) 1971 340 Duster, auto for sale locally.
It was a magazine cover car, with 35,000 original miles.
He's asking $45K. Can. for it, exchange rate is about 5% now.

http://www.legendarymotorcar.com/site/10060

This is what you have to pay, for entry level muscle cars nowadays.
Click to expand...


the sad part is some guys have bottomless bank accounts .
so when i see that one sell for 45 mine has to be worth ??????? .
 
limelite70 said:
the sad part is some guys have bottomless bank accounts .
so when i see that one sell for 45 mine has to be worth ??????? .
Click to expand...

I'm with you, he wanted to buy mine 3 years ago, I told him it wasn't for sale.
He kept plugging, saying everything is for sale, so I told him $25K (wanting to get him of my back) and it did...He emailed me back saying that my asking price was "Drastically" high!.
Mine is a 4 speed with buckets, rear wing and hood pins and electronic ignition, with now 73,000 original miles, all #'s match, Butterscotch car.
I really don't see a $20K. upgrade to his car.

I believe it will be for sale for a good stretch, already been 6 months.
 
That car has been sold how many times in the last year ? It was on ebay for $30,000 earlier this year. Those are the cars that keep changing hands among dealers and going up so the next guy can make a profit.
 
You can't expect them to stay cheap forever. Guys can't afford a E or B so they are going after the A, C and F's now. It will only get worse as they get older. I bought a slant six 70 challenger for $800 when I was right out of high school now that same car would cost at least $3500.

There is a 68 D100 custom that I am looking at getting right now. The guy wants $1300obo and a few years ago I wouldn't pay over $600 for one.

Doing auto appraisals it surprises the hell out of me when I get a call on a car and I think that it won't be worth that much and when I run the comps on it it is worth 5 times what I thought it would be.
 
It never sold on ebay, reserve was not met. This is the same owner (2nd registered). That Duster was originally sold here (locally) and remained here.

It's a great unmolested example, but a bit overpriced none the less.
 
You said....

$12,000 - $20,000
This is were I feel a correctly done, very well restored and detailed 340-360 car should be with the earlier cars at the top and the 73 and 74 at the bottom of the ladder. Again, This is very nicely restored meaning the car is correctly detailed top and bottom. or a mostly original car in need of some celaning and detailing.



With all due respect, I think...
This is a completely grey area, with many factors.
I've seen what it costs to build a car RIGHT, and certainly its alot more than 12K. If you are using parts, pieces, shop eqiupment & supplies you alreday HAVE and free labour, you may cut some corners but I'm talking new gas tank, engine build, new axle bearings,probably wiring upgrades etc....come on - how can you do that for 12 Grand.

Car builders know they wont recover dollar for dollar on a custom build but i dont think they should loose 10K either.

Its whats under the skin of the car that counts and quantifies it value.

That said, i dont like to see guys selling junk for 30K either, we all want to be able to afford this hobby.
 
360scamp said:
You can't expect them to stay cheap forever. Guys can't afford a E or B so they are going after the A, C and F's now. It will only get worse as they get older. I bought a slant six 70 challenger for $800 when I was right out of high school now that same car would cost at least $3500.

There is a 68 D100 custom that I am looking at getting right now. The guy wants $1300obo and a few years ago I wouldn't pay over $600 for one.

Doing auto appraisals it surprises the hell out of me when I get a call on a car and I think that it won't be worth that much and when I run the comps on it it is worth 5 times what I thought it would be.
Click to expand...

JR how do come up with the value of a car ?
 
Prices should only be about $1500.-$2000. more in the north-east, but not what we're seeing. Transport from south-west is about $1500. give or take $150. Myself I don't really like buying a car, if I can't touch it, feel it...
But I might just have to, only go by pictures and description, to hopefully save some $.
 
i know the prices have me wanting a new mustang more and more. just too stupid of money in this crap taking the fun out of it for me lately.
 
Whatever happened to accepting the losses that come with investing in a high performance car? I guess the idiot barret jackson bidders have thouroughly wrecked our hobby.

Used to be that guys did most of thier own work and knew how to fix whatever broke. The crowd at Fabo seems to be like this. But there also seems to be a large segment of our hobby that pays people to restore a car and then they expect to make a profit on the sale. Sure that works for rare vehicles,but Darts,Demons and dusters were everyday working mans musclecars. Sure we love them,but in the big muscecar picture they are fairly common and not worth that kind of money.

I guess Im sensible as I really dont expect to get any kind of return on a high performance car that was mass produced.

I'll never sell mine anyways,lol...
 
abodyjoe said:
i know the prices have me wanting a new mustang more and more. just too stupid of money in this crap taking the fun out of it for me lately.
Click to expand...

No doubt, I feel the same way. I'm even backing off on slant 6 cars, because I don't want to hack them up.

What ever happened to my playground?
 
needsaresto said:
Whatever happened to accepting the losses that come with investing in a high performance car? I guess the idiot barret jackson bidders have thouroughly wrecked our hobby.

Used to be that guys did most of thier own work and knew how to fix whatever broke. The crowd at Fabo seems to be like this. But there also seems to be a large segment of our hobby that pays people to restore a car and then they expect to make a profit on the sale. Sure that works for rare vehicles,but Darts,Demons and dusters were everyday working mans musclecars. Sure we love them,but in the big muscecar picture they are fairly common and not worth that kind of money.

I guess Im sensible as I really dont expect to get any kind of return on a high performance car that was mass produced.

I'll never sell mine anyways,lol...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go as far as saying B-J and other auctions have wrecked our hobby.
In a way they have made our cars an asset (colateral), investment values, now recognized by banks and insurance institutions as good investments.

But no doubt about it, the deep pockets are now takin' more away from the norm.
 
Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it..that is why I laugh at "appraisals" especially when the owner actually thinks that is what the car is worth...I remember a guy getting an appraised value on his plain Jane OK condition MGB of 20+K. Right.

Grassy
 
Good topic Adam, maybe run one with a "Abody" worth sticky, with a range of values.

IE. 1) original, #'s , options etc.
2) rotisserie restored body, upgraded drivetrain.
3) custom paint, roll cage, big block....

See what the concensus is.
 
I thought this may keep people from attacking other prices in the classified section,. LOL
 
AdamR said:
I thought this may keep people from attacking other prices in the classified section,. LOL
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Ha,ha,ha, alterior motives?, attackers will always be attackers. True enough some guys have it coming, but there's no need for arsh words, and that's were the problems start.

PS: True everyone is entitled to an opinion, and should feel free to do so. But what needs to be expressed and how it is expressed are two very different things.
In a way I thank these people for pointing these things out to potential buyers, (if that is the motive).

But keeping in mind that this forum covers many square miles, what is worth a few bucks somewhere to someone is likely worth more to someone else, somewhere else.
 
i had a 1969 barracuda a few years a go with a hemi in it. it was a rust free southern u.s. body. everyone of my brand x friends thought i should get 50 grand or better. i was happy to get what i got. i to believe that barret jackson has tainted the hobby. i had a chance to by various cars brand x and others. the one that bothered me the most was a 1969 mustang gt 500 kr. a true ex drag car with low miles. but sat for years. engine was seized and starting to rust i offered the guy 30,000 but he wanted 170,000. he had seen one sell on b, j for 240 or something like that. it just makes me frusterated. the mustang buy the way he got divorced his wife got it in the settlement and sold it for 12,000 to some guy that has it under a tarp out side. she would not sell it to me. her reason, i would not do anything with it. it has been 6 years, still under tarp.
 
abodyjoe said:
i know the prices have me wanting a new mustang more and more. just too stupid of money in this crap taking the fun out of it for me lately.
Click to expand...

mustang---- never.
a 2008 chally when they come down to 25k , definitely.
and they are dropping .look at the completed ones on ebag. 4 out of 35 sold.
and how many of those really sold??
 
limelite70 said:
mustang---- never.
a 2008 chally when they come down to 25k , definitely.
and they are dropping .look at the completed ones on ebag. 4 out of 35 sold.
and how many of those really sold??
Click to expand...

If your willing to buy a 25K Challenger why not just buy a 25K A body ? Not to get in to a Mustang Vs Mopar thing but the buy in price of a Mustang is just much lower and the aftermarket following is something you will never see with Mopar.

My gripe is I dont see why you shouldnt be able to buy a clean, driveable A body for under 10K but all I see is junk in that price range. Every one seems to think a nice paint job is worth 15 to 20K.

No working at a body shop I under stand what it costs to paint a car but people seem to for get that 10K in paint doesnt equal 10K in return.
 
AdamR said:
If your willing to buy a 25K Challenger why not just buy a 25K A body ? Not to get in to a Mustang Vs Mopar thing but the buy in price of a Mustang is just much lower and the aftermarket following is something you will never see with Mopar.

My gripe is I dont see why you shouldnt be able to buy a clean, driveable A body for under 10K but all I see is junk in that price range. Every one seems to think a nice paint job is worth 15 to 20K.

No working at a body shop I under stand what it costs to paint a car but people seem to for get that 10K in paint doesnt equal 10K in return.
Click to expand...

Granted the paint work is a bit extreme (price wise), I was quoted over 10K on a rust free shell, but that was for top notch work. I could get it done for 5k's still good work (but not meticulous detailed).

How much is a used (2-3 year old) Accord selling for these days?
 
It depends on the state you live in and the laws. In Washington in order to determan the value of a vehicle you need to have 2 or more comparables (vehicles with in the same year range, close mileage, and options) that are with in 25 miles of the garaged zipcode. If you can't find any with in that 25 miles you up the search by 25 more miles and so on. You try to stay with in the country of the vehicle unless it is a super special and rare car.

Once you have a good size list of comps form several different sources (if you show up in court, if it goes that far, with all your comps from one source like craigslist, racingjunk.com or hemmings it looks like you didn't really do a thorough job and your a lazy POS) look for cars with like options to the one you are appraising (ie. motor/tranny/convert/SS/Z28/TA/RT), then you take those cars and compare the mileage to the one you are doing then once you have come up with a few (I like to have at least 4 or 5 comps just keep in mind that insurance agents don't like to sift through a lot of paperwork so keep it simple) you get your high, average and low prices and come up with a value. Pretty much it is a process of elimination.

Also a few more things.

-Most people don't realize that if you goto a new car lot and buy a brand new car, the second that you drive off the lot you loose 15% of the value.

-Mileage, on "newer" vehicles anything over 68,000 miles is a lot. Maybe not since the economy took a **** but people still trade in or trade up for next years model when it comes out. Older stuff like our little A-bodies, you can bring me the nicest, bone stock, one owner car that is rust free but has over 100,000 miles you will loose roughly 20%. If the running gear has been rebuilt then that doesn't apply.

- You need to know the difference between Actual cash value, agreed value and stated value. http://www.zhome.com/Classic/CCInsur.htm

- Diminished value, We have been doing a lot of these lately and some insurance companies don't recognize D.V. so you may want to ask them to look into it.
"Diminished value is the amount of value your vehicle has been reduced by after an accident occurs or has significant damage history. Usually this is determined after an insurance company performs an auto value appraisal. There are three types commonly accepted: immediate, inherent, and repair-related. Immediate diminished value is the difference from the value of the car immediately before damage has occurred and that immediately after. Inherent diminished value assumes repairs done are optimized, and it is the difference between the value of the vehicle after repair and what it was before the damage. Repair-related diminished value is any additional amount the vehicle may be reduced by less than optimal repairs."

There a lot of what we call "One sheet wonders" out there that will hand you a "report" with no pics (we give 3/4 front, 3/4 rear, engine, and interior shots of the vehicle) and it pretty much says "In my opinion this car is worth $$$ because of this..." I will wipe your *** with that "report" any day in a courtroom!
Those are the guys that you stay away from. If you get an appraisal ask them what is included in the report. I give you 2 copies, one for you and one for your insurance agent, I have a hard copy on file, a copy on my external hard drive and I can email or fax a copy if needed.

Depending on the state a auto appraiser may or may not have to be certified. In Washington there currently is no certification required to do auto appraisals so there are a lot of "one sheet wonders" out there working off used car lots (conflict of interest) and guys quoting NADA, old cars price guide or Kelley Blue Book. Thats is not a legal comp in Washington state, it says "Guide" on the cover and will also not hold up in court.(we advertise in Old cars price guide so it is fun when the DOL pulls it out to determan the value so they can come up with a BS tax figure to charge me. I ask them to turn to page 13 or 14 and I set my card on the counter.:snakeman: )
We have been working with the WA state government to try and get some form of certification for auto appraisers but it isn't very high on their priority list at the moment. So ask your appraiser what qualifications they have and how long they have been in this line of work.
Myself, I have been doing auto appraisals for over 12 years and been working on "old cars" and a hobby since I was a little kid (first car was a 27 T sedan when I was 4 or 5 ) my dad has been doing auto appraisals for over 23 years and we have made a great reputation in the Pacific Northwest working for and against insurance companies and private parties.

I am sure there is more that will come to mind later but you should look up your state laws first if you want to get into auto appraisals.
 
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