"Actual Match Race" 1969 440 'Cuda vs 1973 Firebird Formula 'SD-455'

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sr71mopar said:
If we're going to mix and match brands and years then a 71 429 Mach 1 has a dog in this fight. If 370 horse isnt enough there was the SCJ.
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Don't forget the Boss 351 that year, one and only 71'. That 11.3 to 1 engine may be the strongest smallblock ever built? And would run with the 429 easily with the right gear.
 
I love a good Cleveland. I think they were one of the most overlooked motors ever.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I love a good Cleveland. I think they were one of the most overlooked motors ever.
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Rob, I went to high school with a guy...75/77', that had a 70' Mach I with a all stock regulation 351C 4bbl. Was a hi comp 10.5ish engine, with a auto trans and a 3.00 open rear that ran 14.30's @ 100mph. I loved that car.
 
Very good post additions by all,

But I wanted to post actual Race's between my 1969 440 'Cuda and my sisters
1973 Formula 'SD-455'

I'll post all the 'minor' tweaks we did to the Cars, to make a fair comparison.

Race 1

Dead-Start from Idle, with both cars left in {Drive}, and with fully Automatic Shifting.

From a 'Dead-Start' in a 'Quarter-Mile' Race, my sister's Formula SD-455 hooked up much
better off the line, and I lost distance as the 'Cuda spun the tires, and she pulled away,
and had me by '3' Car Lengths before I hooked up.

The 'Formula SD-455' held a 2+ Car Length lead by the half-way point, but the 440 'Cuda
started pulling on my sister's Pontiac hard.

Then the '440' started to breath, and once it 'shifted' into 3rd-Gear {Drive} I pulled on
her big time, and got to within a 1/2 Car-Length at the End. But she just getting nipped
me, as I went by her 'after' the End Line.

Gears
* 440 'Cuda............ 3.91
* Formula SD-455... 3.90

440 'Cuda Tires
* {Front}..................Concorde F-70 x 14" {Ansen 14" x 6" - Cast Aluminum Mags}
* {Rear}...................Concorde G-60 x 14" (Ansen 14" x 7" - Cast-Aluminum Mags}

Formula SD-455 Tires
* {Front and Rear}.....Firestone F-60 x 15" {Pontiac 15" x 7" - Honeycomb Wheels}
 
OldmanRick said:
Rob, I went to high school with a guy...75/77', that had a 70' Mach I with a all stock regulation 351C 4bbl. Was a hi comp 10.5ish engine, with a auto trans and a 3.00 open rear that ran 14.30's @ 100mph. I loved that car.
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I bet that was cool. Those are neato cars.
 
Great recount, "69 Cuda 440", of the days with these two special cars. Big torque 455 vs big power 440...I love it. I don't care who won, it's just awesome...:thumleft:
 
Thanks Old-Man-Rick

My 69 440 'Cuda, was not 'traction friendly' from a Dead-Start at Idle.

The G60 x 14" Concorde Tires were a good tire, but were so-so for traction
despite being 8.50" Wide.

Race 2

From a 'rolling start', it was completely different.

There, the 440 'Cuda was not hampered as much by the lack of traction
against the better launching {traction-wise} 'Formula SD-455'.

Both cars were pretty much 'Even' thru '1st-Gear' {give or take an inch}, but
once the '440 'Cuda automatically shifted into '2nd-Gear', it started to pull away from
the 'Formula SD-455', though the Pontiac hung close to about a 1 1/4 Car Length
behind.

On Top-End, once the '440' opened up and the Carter 750 CFM AVS started to
draw in air, the 'Cuda opened up a bigger lead and won by about 3 Car Lengths.
 
It is an excellent recount. Sorry for the tangent......but if you think yer gonna come on a Mopar site and brag about the greatness of a wannabe, you got anuther thing comin. LOL JK, of course.

I liked what Pontiac was doing there, because much like Mopar, they still had big block power available and 4 speed transmissions....well into the 70s.
 
Rusty rat,

Remember these,,,,,,

Concorde Tires

They looked nice on my 1969 440 'Cuda 'M-Code'


BillRobinson_ConcordeTireAd.jpg
 
Yeah. I've mounted a lot of them in the distant past. Between those and Criterions, it was always a tossup as to which ones would have more separated right off the truck. LOL
 
Specifications of the 'Street Performance Match Race Cars'

1969 440 'Cuda

Shipping Weight....................#3310 lbs.
Front/Back Distribution.........57.2% {1863 lbs} ~ 42.8% {1447 lbs.}

Rims.....................................Ansen Cast-Aluminum Mags {14" x 6 Front} ~ {14" x 7" back}
Tires....................................Concorde S 500 {F70 x 14" Front} ~ {G60 x 14" Back}
Rear Tire Size......................26.0" Tall x 8.40" Width

Suspension...........................Gabriel Strider Shocks {'XF' setting} ......{Added}
Suspension...........................Stock Rear Leaf-Springs {6-Leaf ~ Load-Rate @ #150 lbs./Inch}
Suspension...........................Direct-Connection Adjustable Pinion Snubber......{Added}
Brakes..................................Drum {10" x 1.75" Front} ~ {10" x 1.50" Rear}
Steering...............................Manual {26:1 Ratio}

Gears...................................3.91 Sure-Grip {Factory Installed Option}
 
Chip,

'Gabriel Striders' is what I used for the 69' 440 'Cuda on the Street.

3-Way Adjustable..........'XF' for Extra Firm Ride

GabrielStriders.jpg
 
FWIW,had a 72 Formula 400/T.H.400. Stock blueprinted 400 short block,swapped on the 16 castings(68-69,400/350 heads). Threw a small(229/238 @.050)Hydraulic Hauler Crower at it. Stock dual plane intake,3310w /adapter.Headers as well. That was the most fun street car,I ever owned. And it weighed,3680 with no inner fenders and headers.
 
Mr A-Body-Bomber

I have to agree.

My sisters 1973 'Formula SD-455' was not only an easy car to drive, it handled
great. The F60 x 15' Firestone Wide Ovals were actually a better 'street handling'
tire back then over the new Radial Tires.

Yes, Curb Weight was #3650+ lbs.

Back in 1975.....

As for 'Quarter-Mile' Performance, my 1969 'Cuda 440 ran 12.80's @ 112 MPH
with 9" M & H Racemaster Slicks, 3.91 Gears and a 'customized' Stock Exhaust System
{No Headers} plus a few other Engine tweaks.

My sister's Formula SD-455 with 3.90 Gears was damn near a '12.90' car.
 
I'll say this for Pontiac motors. From a machinist's standpoint, They have some beautiful combustion chambers. They are one of the FEW domestic engines that use final machining to finish the combustion chamber. The Hemis also did. Most others were as cast and rough. The smooth machined finish certainly has to promote better fuel burn and reduce hot spots that lead to detonation.
 
Abodybomber said:
FWIW,had a 72 Formula 400/T.H.400. Stock blueprinted 400 short block,swapped on the 16 castings(68-69,400/350 heads). Threw a small(229/238 @.050)Hydraulic Hauler Crower at it. Stock dual plane intake,3310w /adapter.Headers as well. That was the most fun street car,I ever owned. And it weighed,3680 with no inner fenders and headers.
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Hydraulic Hauler. Got the job done.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Show me a Pontiac document that raised the HP rating. This I gotta see. Regardless, it was an underpowered luxury hot rod. Too heavy to get out of its own way in stock trim.
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that is a true statement.my buddies 64 dodge shortbed 360 727 355 gear beat one bad at the street races in milpitas and he never got to third gear.....
 
Honestly,

I don't think anybody saw one of these 1973 'Formula SD-455' Firebirds.

Not a 'Red' one with an Automatic.

th
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Though the SD-455 is 'Advertised' listed at 290 HP, Pontiac re-upped it to 310 HP,
and the NHRA re-factored it to 345 HP.
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Actually, I believe the SD's horsepower rating was initially rated at 310 HP, but subsequently lowered to 290 HP by Pontiac when their planned use of the old Ram Air IV cam wasn't capable of passing emissions and a more mellow cam substituted. From Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine#SD455

A camshaft with 301/313 degrees of advertised duration, 0.407 inch net valve lift, and 76 degrees of valve overlap was specified for actual production engines in lieu of the significantly more aggressive RAM AIR IV style cam that had originally been planned for the engine (initially rated at 310 hp (230 kW) with that cam), but ultimately proved incapable of meeting the tightening emissions standards of the era. The very modest cam, combined with a low-compression ratio of 8.4 (advertised) and 7.9:1 actual resulted in 290 SAE NET HP. The initial press cars that were given to the various enthusiast magazines (e.g. HOT ROD and CAR AND DRIVER) were fitted with the RAM AIR IV style cam and functional hood scoops - a fact that has been confirmed by several Pontiac sources.
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69 Cuda 440 said:
Honestly,

I don't think anybody saw one of these 1973 'Formula SD-455' Firebirds.

Not a 'Red' one with an Automatic.

th
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the car he beat was a 74 sd455 trans am.white with blue stripe....a big pig...
 
I had a friend (RIP) who shared ownership of a 1971 455 HO Trans Am with his brother. Now, that car.....even though heavy and piggish, was not slow. Even though it was an auto with 3.42 gears and Bobby (RIP) could not shift manually, because he had to use hand controls ( he was a paraplegic), he turned some 14 second time slips in that car. That was a beautiful car. It has since been through multiple restorations. I was very luck enough to perform some super tuning work on the car while the drive train was still original. I recurved the distributor, rejetted the quadrajet and got it running very well. This was close to 30 years ago. Here is that VERY car now.

http://www.extrememotorcar.com/TransAm

Bobby's (RIP) brother Bruce now has the car along with the rest of his collection in Tampa. We had some hell of a good times in that car. Bobby and I almost got locked up in it the day I super tuned it. lol
 
Do agree,

The Trans Am with all the 'graphics' looked like a 'Second Rate' side street
Casino in Reno.

All those flaps, flares and front spoiler, it looked like a 'Plastic Brigade'.
And all 'tartered' up with decals.

'Cheap Flash'.

The Formula 455 and Formula SD-455 cars of 1973 and earlier were much better
looking performance cars.

The 1973 Formula SD-455 had a special 'PQ-Code' Turbo-Hydramatic Automatic Transmission,
that was 'real strong'. It had special internals, revised shifting points and specific internal
valving from the Factory.

With 3.90 Gears, it was a perfect fit on the Street.
 
I guess. I think the early T/As were awesome looking. I don't think any other car captured America in the 70s like the Trans Am. Like um or not. And I do.
 
1973 Pontiac Firebird Specifications

Just like I stated.

SD-455....310 Horsepower........{NHRA re-factored them to 345 HP}

Also, the 'Formula SD-455' was #132 lbs. lighter than the 'Trans Am SD-455'.

712_5_low_res.jpeg
 
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