Adding a pusher fan.

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Of your text book for Thermodynamics class....

Didn't your teachers ever say, "open your book to page xx and follow along...."

Sorry, I skipped the thermodynamics class. I enrolled in the common sense class instead. It gave me more credits that the other one. lol
 
Sorry, I skipped the thermodynamics class. I enrolled in the common sense class instead. It gave me more credits that the other one. lol
I worked around engineers for a lot of my working life, u wouldn`t believe how stupid " SOME' of them are, especially the younger ones. NOT POINTING ANY FINGURES HERE !
 
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you but what I am saying is that when the car is moving the pusher fan isn't working. When the car is moving the car is cooling enough that the pusher fan will not be running. It will be off because the temp will be not be high enough to kick the pusher fan on. The only time the pusher fan would come on is if and when you would get stuck in traffic and the temp would rise enough to kick it on and then it would assist the factory fan in cooling it down. While you are running at pretty much any speed the air would cool it down enough and the pusher wouldn't be on. I am not talking about having the pusher fan on a switch that runs all the time. It would be on a relay that when the temp rises above say 195* it would come on . That is the way I have it set up on the rat rod. It works fine.
No actually you're missing my point. What I'm saying is that you can only push or pull as much air with the fan(s) as the stronger of the 2 will move. The weaker of the 2 fans with actually just disturb the air flow created by the other fan and therefore actually reduce the total flow. You're better off just running one fan. So it's like this if on one side of the radiator you have a fan that can move 500 CFM of air and on the other side you have a fan that moves 300 CFM, you're not going to be getting 800 CFM of air flow. You probably won't even get the 500 because the weaker fan can't keep up and just gets in the way.
 
No actually you're missing my point. What I'm saying is that you can only push or pull as much air with the fan(s) as the stronger of the 2 will move. The weaker of the 2 fans with actually just disturb the air flow created by the other fan and therefore actually reduce the total flow. You're better off just running one fan. So it's like this if on one side of the radiator you have a fan that can move 500 CFM of air and on the other side you have a fan that moves 300 CFM, you're not going to be getting 800 CFM of air flow. You probably won't even get the 500 because the weaker fan can't keep up and just gets in the way.

And you are missing my point. Doesn't matter if one is taking away from the other. IF the factory fan is inefficient to cool a motor down while at an idle in traffic or not. IF the factory fan is not adequate enough, then there is a problem. In my opinion it would not be to my advantage to remove that fan and run any kind of electric fan by itself because by itself, pusher or puller and take a chance on it getting a short, blowing a fuse or just not working and then run hot. In my opinion it is stupid to run an electric fan all by itself UNLESS you are doing it at a track where you are only running a 1/4 mile at best where you can control the situation. At least you would have some kind of air circulation. Like I said earlier, I have this setup on my rat rod that is running a 454 BB engine at it runs fine. MAYBE one is taking away from the other some, I don't care. It is getting the job done. Maybe if I ran a shroud on it or on the Duster, I wouldn't need a pusher, I don't know. But if I get in traffic and sit for any length of time and the temp rises to 195*, the pusher comes on and it comes back down to 180*. That is all the info I need. And to the OP, I would say do it. That is why I chimed in on this. Not to argue the point with an aerospace engineer or anyone else. I just stated the fact to the OP that this does work and I intend on doing it to my Duster like I have done on the rat rod.
 
And you are missing my point. Doesn't matter if one is taking away from the other. IF the factory fan is inefficient to cool a motor down while at an idle in traffic or not. IF the factory fan is not adequate enough, then there is a problem. In my opinion it would not be to my advantage to remove that fan and run any kind of electric fan by itself because by itself, pusher or puller and take a chance on it getting a short, blowing a fuse or just not working and then run hot. In my opinion it is stupid to run an electric fan all by itself UNLESS you are doing it at a track where you are only running a 1/4 mile at best where you can control the situation. At least you would have some kind of air circulation. Like I said earlier, I have this setup on my rat rod that is running a 454 BB engine at it runs fine. MAYBE one is taking away from the other some, I don't care. It is getting the job done. Maybe if I ran a shroud on it or on the Duster, I wouldn't need a pusher, I don't know. But if I get in traffic and sit for any length of time and the temp rises to 195*, the pusher comes on and it comes back down to 180*. That is all the info I need. And to the OP, I would say do it. That is why I chimed in on this. Not to argue the point with an aerospace engineer or anyone else. I just stated the fact to the OP that this does work and I intend on doing it to my Duster like I have done on the rat rod.
As a few of u know, I had the pan off checking a few bearings. I started it yesterday to check for any leaks, and to fill the radiator while the front end was still up in the air. The air temp. got up to 113 degress in the garage (according to the hand held for my fast 2.0 fuel inj.) , the elec. fan kicked on at 200, the two fans kept the engine at 203, what do u think would have happened if one fan was not there. END OF DISCUSSION FOR ME!
 
Like I said there are going to be the guys that will site their combination of fans and how their car runs at xyz temp but that doesn't change the laws of physics.
I posted on this not so much to convince those who are locked in to their opinion and belief, but for the other people who are having a similar problem with their cars and happen to come across this thread. To help them and the OP.
 
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Like I said there are going to be the guys that will site their combination of fans and how their car runs at xyz temp but that doesn't change the laws of physics.
I posted on this not so much to convince those who are locked in to their opinion and belief, but for the other people who are having a similar problem with their cars and happen to come across this thread.

you mean to change those who don't know what they are doing and convince them not to do what others know that works all because of the laws of physics. Sometimes laws of whatever doesn't always work in some situations. Take Murphy's Law for example. It doesn't always work like that.
 
What if the pusher is not lined up with the puller? That should (and does) work even better. I have my electric pusher offset to the side of the radiator, where the (stock clutch) puller fan only covers about 1/2 of the area. By the way, I have to agree with trudysduster in that this setup helps a lot in traffic.
 
What if the pusher is not lined up with the puller? That should (and does) work even better. I have my electric pusher offset to the side of the radiator, where the (stock clutch) puller fan only covers about 1/2 of the area. By the way, I have to agree with trudysduster in that this setup helps a lot in traffic.

You probably have a good point there about offsetting the pusher. It has to help some or even better run 2-12" pushers and that way you can have 2 ends that is offset. Both corners.
 
So on my Sons 70 Duster the center section is in the way and i don't want to cut it. What brand and size does everyone run. Significantly hopped up 340 with 3 core champion. Warms up in traffic and stopps.
 
So on my Sons 70 Duster the center section is in the way and i don't want to cut it. What brand and size does everyone run. Significantly hopped up 340 with 3 core champion. Warms up in traffic and stopps.
this thread is getting long of tooth . my 15" pusher fan is offset to the pass side, wont go in the middle ! Still experimenting w/ diff. combinations. Wish I had room for a short clutch type fan, but I don`t !!
 
So on my Sons 70 Duster the center section is in the way and i don't want to cut it. What brand and size does everyone run. Significantly hopped up 340 with 3 core champion. Warms up in traffic and stopps.

You shouldn’t need an electric pusher with a good mechanical fan, and you shouldn’t need a mechanical fan with a good electric fan(s). Do it right once.

I run a 400+ hp, .060” over, all iron 340 with a 26” Champion 3 core and an electric fan set up from a Ford Contour. The rest of my set up info is earlier in the thread. Works great, has for years now, I daily drive it in temperatures well over 100*F and have no issues with it.

What does the rest of your cooling system look like? What thermostat are you running? What fan? Do you have a fan shroud? Have you checked your temperature gauge against an IR thermometer to check if it’s accurate? Gonna need more info.


this thread is getting long of tooth . my 15" pusher fan is offset to the pass side, wont go in the middle ! Still experimenting w/ diff. combinations. Wish I had room for a short clutch type fan, but I don`t !!

Doesn’t matter if you offset it or not, not as far as the radiator is concerned. No matter where you put it, if you put it in front, you’re blocking and disrupting the air flow through the radiator core when the car is at speed. Maybe not enough to cause problems, but that’s what’s happening regardless of whether or not it “works”.

I think people believe clutch fans are magic or something. All they do is keep your mechanical fan from running all the time, or at the same speed as the water pump shaft, depending on the style of clutch. They don’t increase the air moved by the fan compared to a simple direct mounted mechanical fan, they reduce it. Either by letting it turn slower at high rpms or by freewheeling it at certain temperatures. They’re saving power and improving efficiency compared to spinning the fan all the time.

If you have room for a mechanical fan, you have room for a shroud. Maybe not a stock one, but something. That allows the fan to pull air directly across the whole radiator core, and improves efficiency. If you heat up at idle, your fan isn’t moving enough air. Or your radiator is too small, but that would be apparent at speed too.

Adding a pusher fan to a mechanical system is just a band aid. All you’re doing is stealing efficiency from you cooling system at speed to make up for its shortcomings at idle. If you use the right fan, be it mechanical or electric, you shouldn’t need both. If what you’re doing “works”, good for you. But it’s not the best or most efficient way to do it.
 
You shouldn’t need an electric pusher with a good mechanical fan, and you shouldn’t need a mechanical fan with a good electric fan(s). Do it right once.

I run a 400+ hp, .060” over, all iron 340 with a 26” Champion 3 core and an electric fan set up from a Ford Contour. The rest of my set up info is earlier in the thread. Works great, has for years now, I daily drive it in temperatures well over 100*F and have no issues with it.

What does the rest of your cooling system look like? What thermostat are you running? What fan? Do you have a fan shroud? Have you checked your temperature gauge against an IR thermometer to check if it’s accurate? Gonna need more info.




Doesn’t matter if you offset it or not, not as far as the radiator is concerned. No matter where you put it, if you put it in front, you’re blocking and disrupting the air flow through the radiator core when the car is at speed. Maybe not enough to cause problems, but that’s what’s happening regardless of whether or not it “works”.

I think people believe clutch fans are magic or something. All they do is keep your mechanical fan from running all the time, or at the same speed as the water pump shaft, depending on the style of clutch. They don’t increase the air moved by the fan compared to a simple direct mounted mechanical fan, they reduce it. Either by letting it turn slower at high rpms or by freewheeling it at certain temperatures. They’re saving power and improving efficiency compared to spinning the fan all the time.

If you have room for a mechanical fan, you have room for a shroud. Maybe not a stock one, but something. That allows the fan to pull air directly across the whole radiator core, and improves efficiency. If you heat up at idle, your fan isn’t moving enough air. Or your radiator is too small, but that would be apparent at speed too.

Adding a pusher fan to a mechanical system is just a band aid. All you’re doing is stealing efficiency from you cooling system at speed to make up for its shortcomings at idle. If you use the right fan, be it mechanical or electric, you shouldn’t need both. If what you’re doing “works”, good for you. But it’s not the best or most efficient way to do it.

I AGREE ON THE MECH. BELT DRIVEN FAN BEING THE BEST , NO DOUBT ! I RUN ONE ! The pusher fan doesn`t hurt as much as u let on, it is turning when the car is moving, wheather it is on or off. Not like a solid piece of sheet metal in there, not near the restriction like ur saying . It does help a hi h.p. engine at a stop light, Yes it is a band aid, but if ur creating a lot of h.p. in a tite compartment , u do everything u can to keep it cool. The standard old stuff that works on most cars, go out the window when u get over 700 h.p. in a street car. I`ll use every band aid I can think of !!
 
I AGREE ON THE MECH. BELT DRIVEN FAN BEING THE BEST , NO DOUBT ! I RUN ONE ! The pusher fan doesn`t hurt as much as u let on, it is turning when the car is moving, wheather it is on or off. Not like a solid piece of sheet metal in there, not near the restriction like ur saying . It does help a hi h.p. engine at a stop light, Yes it is a band aid, but if ur creating a lot of h.p. in a tite compartment , u do everything u can to keep it cool. The standard old stuff that works on most cars, go out the window when u get over 700 h.p. in a street car. I`ll use every band aid I can think of !!

I never said a mechanical fan was best. There's a whole bunch of reasons why pretty much all new cars come with electric fans, so saying that a mechanical belt driven fan is "best" is just silly. Maybe for certain applications, but honestly the OE electric fans out there now are more reliable and more capable than some old mechanical fan. That's why I run electric fans. You have much better control of what the fans are doing and when, so it's easier to keep the engine at the temperature it wants to be at without running fans when you don't need them and wasting power.

As for the restriction of a pusher fan, of course its not like a flat plate. It's not even as bad as say, hanging an AC condenser out in front. But if you think it doesn't cause a restriction you're just wrong. It does, and you have to address it. Just like Ma Mopar did when they upsized the radiators for the cars that came with factory AC.

If your cobbled together stuff works for you, great. If you want to run multiple inadequate fans instead of one that can do the whole job, be my guest. But if you do it right, you'll have better cooling and lose less power. If slapping a cheap pusher fan out front works what it actually means is that your mechanical fan isn't pulling enough air at low speed, and your radiator is big enough to cool the car. So the radiator is fine, the mechanical fan is underperforming, and the pusher is just trading efficiency at speed to band aid the inadequate mechanical fan at idle.
 
I never said a mechanical fan was best. There's a whole bunch of reasons why pretty much all new cars come with electric fans, so saying that a mechanical belt driven fan is "best" is just silly. Maybe for certain applications, but honestly the OE electric fans out there now are more reliable and more capable than some old mechanical fan. That's why I run electric fans. You have much better control of what the fans are doing and when, so it's easier to keep the engine at the temperature it wants to be at without running fans when you don't need them and wasting power.

As for the restriction of a pusher fan, of course its not like a flat plate. It's not even as bad as say, hanging an AC condenser out in front. But if you think it doesn't cause a restriction you're just wrong. It does, and you have to address it. Just like Ma Mopar did when they upsized the radiators for the cars that came with factory AC.

If your cobbled together stuff works for you, great. If you want to run multiple inadequate fans instead of one that can do the whole job, be my guest. But if you do it right, you'll have better cooling and lose less power. If slapping a cheap pusher fan out front works what it actually means is that your mechanical fan isn't pulling enough air at low speed, and your radiator is big enough to cool the car. So the radiator is fine, the mechanical fan is underperforming, and the pusher is just trading efficiency at speed to band aid the inadequate mechanical fan at idle.
Dam dude, what part of, "I don`t have room for anything bigger, do you not understand ?!"
Sounds like u like to argue just for the hell of it ! Some guys have to do what they have to do to get by . out of this conversation.
 
Additionally any electric fan should be operated by a relay not just a simple switch ciruit.
U DON`T REALLY THINK WE`D BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT A GUY W/ THAT LITTLE RUNT CHUCK NORRIS HAS FOR AN AVATAR PIC, SAYS , DO YOU !-------------------------------lol
 
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