Alignment tweaks to improve tracking?

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goldfish65

goldfish65

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Recently I made some changes to my '65 Barracuda. Now my car's tracking is less in control than it was before. On the highway it doesn't stay in the lane as well and the handling on twisty roads is not as accurate. The steering wheel doesn't return completely to on-center after going around a corner like it used to.

Here are the changes: 14x7 wheels and 205/70 tires to replace the original 13"ers. New rear leaf springs 1" over stock height. Four new KYB shocks. New idler arm and pitman arm. Frontend alignment done to stock spec's.

I had a reputable shop do all the work, I have used them a lot over the years. They also adjusted the tightness of the steering box which made the car very twitchy so we backed it off a little bit, and then a little more, until it had a little play. I wonder if it needs just a tad more backing off? Would a change in the alignment specs help?

Does anyone have some advice on how to improve the above handling issues? Goldie has a great new stance but the handling was better before I made the changes. I'm kinda bummed, after spending quite a bit for everything. Thanks guys...
 
what kind of 14X7 rims are you running? what is the back space and offset?
14X7 are a bit wider than the stock 14X5.5 and may be affecting your scrub ratio
 
All your symptoms point to way too much negative caster. Do you have power or manual steering in this car?
 
New idler and pitman will take a few miles to "loosen" up. Make sure everything was greased. And I would never tighten up a steering box along with installing new parts. JMO
 
I know I will probably get this wrong but I think it sounds like a caster issue given that the wheel doesn't want to return to center.

Changes in rear ride hight can effect caster (but I don't think that is the issue here).

Personally I think they aligned it wrong (post your alignment numbers from your receipt if you have them).
 
I knew I would get some good imput, thanks. I wish they hadn't messed with the steering box. Maybe I will loosen it back just a little more. I know they didn't do the alignment til after the springs were installed and the new ride height was established.

The owner of the shop has more experience with tweaking alignment settings than his employee who did the alignment. I guess I will bring it back on Monday and see what he says. I do know he did some alignment tweaking to my old Fury and it drove a lot better afterwards.

To answer the wheel size question, I replaced the 13"ers with 14x7's with 3-1/2" backspacing on the front and 4" backspacing on the rears (I THINK...I remember trying to make sure the rear track was wider than the front.) I don't know the offset....wheels were bought used.

Car has power steering.
 
Ok again, and I may be wrong.

I was told by a shop that you do not want to use the old specs (designed for a bias ply tire) when you run a modern radial.

Anyone have info on this?
 
When I had my alignment (done at a small town shop by an old guy that had worked there forever)……

I asked if they needed the specs for an old 68 and told them I had BiasPly tires…..

He said "No… we will give it a lil camber and caster and set the toe where it needs to be and it should roll down the road for you"…..


I was thinking….. Um… What the hell?


Car drives perfect. lol
 
the alignment shop might not have done anything "wrong".

but the stock out of the book alignment setting suck. And you are running modern radials that can take better settings.

Camber: .25 degrees negative to .5 degree negative

Caster: postive and up to 4 degrees positive. You might need offset moog upper control arm bushings to get above 1 deg positive.

Toe: 1/16" toe in

What are the left and right specs listed on your alignment printout.
 
autoxcuda said:
the alignment shop might not have done anything "wrong".

but the stock out of the book alignment setting suck. And you are running modern radials that can take better settings.

Camber: .25 degrees negative to .5 degree negative

Caster: postive and up to 4 degrees positive. You might need offset moog upper control arm bushings to get above 1 deg positive.

Toe: 1/16" toe in
Click to expand...

Thanks, I appreciate your expertise, I will take this info to the shop. I didn't look at the alignment printout if they gave me one, I've had a lot going on in my life lately...I just stuck the receipt in the glove box. I'll take a look in the morning.
 
Thank you caferacerx for contributing the link to the website, it does a great job of explaining alignment.
 
goldfish65 said:
I knew I would get some good imput, thanks. I wish they hadn't messed with the steering box. Maybe I will loosen it back just a little more. I know they didn't do the alignment til after the springs were installed and the new ride height was established.

The owner of the shop has more experience with tweaking alignment settings than his employee who did the alignment. I guess I will bring it back on Monday and see what he says. I do know he did some alignment tweaking to my old Fury and it drove a lot better afterwards.

To answer the wheel size question, I replaced the 13"ers with 14x7's with 3-1/2" backspacing on the front and 4" backspacing on the rears (I THINK...I remember trying to make sure the rear track was wider than the front.) I don't know the offset....wheels were bought used.

Car has power steering.
Click to expand...
if you put the 3 1/2 back space on the front and 4" back space on the rear it would set the front wheels wider than the back, is it possible the alignment shop accidentally put one of the back wheels on the front? if you had one 4" back space and one 3 1/2" back space on the front it would never align correctly
 
So? did you get a chance to look at the specs? We can help a LOT more with some hard numbers...

Benjamin
 
Don't ever adjust your play from the steering box. Set the box correctly, then find the problem.
 
caferacerx said:
if you put the 3 1/2 back space on the front and 4" back space on the rear it would set the front wheels wider than the back, is it possible the alignment shop accidentally put one of the back wheels on the front? if you had one 4" back space and one 3 1/2" back space on the front it would never align correctly
Click to expand...

I know the wheels didn't get switched around because 2 wheels are Indy Mags and 2 are Moderns and I can tell them apart easily, the Indy's have screw holes for mounting the center caps.

I think I do have the 4" backspace on the front...I remember talking to the guy at the tire store about which wheels to put on the front and on the back. But I better check that too.
 
did they give you a print out?

P1011416.jpg
 
Als, I didn't see a print out. I stopped by the shop today and talked to the owner whom I've dealt with for years and he said bring the car back and he would put in more caster. And that should help the wandering problem.
 
Slap a straight 3 foot piece of 2x4 flush against the outside of each front wheel . Now measure outside to outside just in front of the tire and just behind the tire. The front measurement should be 1/16" shorter than the rear . Toe-out will make a car wander big time and if the toe-in is wrong chances are they screwed up the rest of the alignment too. Ive got a similar set up on my 64 and it handles like its on rails.
 
goldfish65 said:
Als, I didn't see a print out. I stopped by the shop today and talked to the owner whom I've dealt with for years and he said bring the car back and he would put in more caster. And that should help the wandering problem.
Click to expand...

well what i have been told is to put the rear eccentrics all the way in and then set ur camber to .5 . sometimes if u cant get the camber back in u can back off the rear bolts
 
being a alignment guy i set alot of cars with out spec. or set to help tire were it,s tough to tell what going on with out numbers to gauge were the settings are when your there ask what they are ?
 
It's snowing in Atlanta this morning so I will probably bring the car in tomorrow. I will remember to ask for the readings. Thanks guys, You're the greatest, I appreciate all your help.
 
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