Another 318 set up

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volaredon said:
Red x time again
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i'm all for the red x if you can demonstrate why you think the holley is an inferior carb and expound upon the virtues of the almighty AFB

and sorry, but: "hurrr durrr they suck" is not an acceptable answer.

but you seem to have a hard on for giving me red x's so do carry on with whatever campaign it is you seem insistent on carrying out.
 
abodyjoe said:
lol.. i think he is the one that can't get a 904 to live behind anything.
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no time for tuning dr. jones! i have transmissions to rebuild and motors to do a whole swap-a-roo betwixt these two durangos!

maybe if he just went with a 360, holley and 727 he wouldn't be so embittered?
 
Newbomb Turk said:
What misinformation would that be?
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I knew that would get your attention.

Do you want to explain to the class how to figure out how much Horsepower an engine makes? Because it seems that you believe and preach that engine torque is not that important. Explain in full detail how making making horsepower is more important than making torque even though you cannot have one measurement without the other.
 
honestly, if you want a 318, try find a running 318 magnum. clean up the heads with a little bowl porting & 5 angle vj, trim the guides a skoash, get hughes #1110 springs, thin head gasket, rering, get the roller cam reground by bullet cams using their HR259/316 or HR259/326 lobes on the intake, HR265/320 on the exhaust, one of the chinese air gaps, a 600CFM carb and headers, and you have a very nice, very streetable 330+HP motor that will work well with mild gears and stock to mild stall torque converter. if you already have a good running 318, start with a 600 cfm 4bbl, headers, and something like a comp XE250 or XE256. then maybe look at a mag head swap for the next step up.
 
Ant said:
I knew that would get your attention.

Do you want to explain to the class how to figure out how much Horsepower an engine makes? Because it seems that you believe and preach that engine torque is not that important. Explain in full detail how making making horsepower is more important than making torque even though you cannot have one measurement without the other.
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HP is what's ultimately important it doesn't matter what ratio of torque and rpm you make if from especially from a performance perspective eg.. I need X hp to do Y. The ratio of torque and rpm for a given hp is more of a design issue.
 
Ant said:
I knew that would get your attention.

Do you want to explain to the class how to figure out how much Horsepower an engine makes? Because it seems that you believe and preach that engine torque is not that important. Explain in full detail how making making horsepower is more important than making torque even though you cannot have one measurement without the other.
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Plus everyone talks torque from a dyno perspective (at the crank) but should be looking at it from the tire perspective, if we measure torque and hp at the tire especially with same size tire and if were in similar weighted cars doing similar quarter mile times we'll be putting down similar torque and hp down to the tire at similar speeds no matter how vastly different the torque and rpm numbers are on the dyno to make similar hp.

Yes you could have different power and weight and tire sizes and have same performance but it still will all be relative to each other.
 
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273 said:
HP is what's ultimately important it doesn't matter what ratio of torque and rpm you make if from especially from a performance perspective eg.. I need X hp to do Y. The ratio of torque and rpm for a given hp is more of a design issue.
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It depends on the type of performance and the level you desire. Both horsepower and torque need to be taken into consideration along with the power curve. Remember, a lot of us have street cars with 3 speed slush-o-matics and a highway rear gear, so an high rpm race engine is not fit for that use.

The augment cannot be one sided, dan is not going to be rotating the earth with his imaginary 318 build, I don't think that was his intention.
 
Ant said:
It depends on the type of performance and the level you desire.
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The level of performance is an HP issue, you need a certain amount of HP to accomplish what ever your after.
Ant said:
Both horsepower and torque need to be taken into consideration along with the power curve. Remember, a lot of us have street cars with 3 speed slush-o-matics and a highway rear gear, so an high rpm race engine is not fit for that use.

The augment cannot be one sided, dan is not going to be rotating the earth with his imaginary 318 build, I don't think that was his intention.
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How you get that HP is a design issue, you got to figure out best rpm range gears etc.. And how much torque is needed at those rpms to make the hp to accomplish what ever performance goals you have.


Eg.. Say you are towing heavy loads in mountainous areas and figure you need about 400 hp to accomplish your goals at general road speeds, you could gear an higher rpm engine to do it like a rock crawler or just build the 400 hp at your average rpm you drive at say 2000 rpm so the power is just a throttle press away, So the torque needed to do that is 1050 lbs-ft, then you would need to figure out how much displacement would be needed etc.. probably use diesel and a power adder to cut the displacement down some.
 
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Dan you'd probably be happy with a sweet sounding dual exhaust and a properly running bone stock engine. After that I'd do rear gears to 3.55, then engine and torque converter
 
273 said:
Eg.. Say you are towing heavy loads in mountainous areas and figure you need about 400 hp to accomplish your goals at general road speeds, you could gear an higher rpm engine to do it like a rock crawler or just build the 400 hp at you average rpm you drive at say 2000 rpm so the power is just a throttle press away, So the torque needed to do that is 1050 lbs-ft, then you would need to figure out how much displacement would be needed etc.. probably use diesel and a power adder to cut the displacement down some
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Now that's supporting my argument a bit, but that 1050 lbs-ft of torque at 2000 rpm or so is the reason why you can tow that heavy load without having to use some crazy low gears. Torque is what you need to move the load, horsepower is what gets you there quickly most of the time. So when other people say torque is not important and use lower gears or a closer ratio transmission, they don't realize that the achievement of using a lower gear is more torque multiplication for an higher reving engine where more of its torque is higher up in the rpm range along with the higher horsepower.
 
Ant said:
I knew that would get your attention.

Do you want to explain to the class how to figure out how much Horsepower an engine makes? Because it seems that you believe and preach that engine torque is not that important. Explain in full detail how making making horsepower is more important than making torque even though you cannot have one measurement without the other.
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Rather than just ask a question you wanted to be slick. Got it.

What happens AFTER peak torque?

Then YOU can explain in detail how torque does the work.

I’m not holding my breath because the torque beats all crowd is pretty stuck in the land of make believe.
 
Ant said:
It depends on the type of performance and the level you desire. Both horsepower and torque need to be taken into consideration along with the power curve. Remember, a lot of us have street cars with 3 speed slush-o-matics and a highway rear gear, so an high rpm race engine is not fit for that use.

The augment cannot be one sided, dan is not going to be rotating the earth with his imaginary 318 build, I don't think that was his intention.
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Right. And every single thing Dan said he wanted to do was *** backwards.
 
Ant said:
Now that's supporting my argument a bit, but that 1050 lbs-ft of torque at 2000 rpm or so is the reason why you can tow that heavy load without having to use some crazy low gears. Torque is what you need to move the load,
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The hp is what's needed, if it takes a minimum of 400 hp to do the task you need to make at least 400 hp but torque theoretically be any amount eg.. 1 lbs-ft x 2,100,800 rpm or 2,100,800 lbs-ft x 1 rpm both equal 400 hp and so do an infinite amount of other combinations but obviously most are very impractical for our applications, were generally gonna make it between 4500-7500 rpms with the engines we have.
Ant said:
horsepower is what gets you there quickly most of the time.
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Hp ain't really about quickly or high rpm, yes more hp can do a task more quickly aka haul a heavy load up a steep hill quicker (higher mph). Hp is basically responsible for every aspect of you driving your car, it takes different amounts of hp to do all the different types of task you require your engine to do while driving, don't matter if were talking at 1500 rpm or 7500 and beyond rpm it's Hp, and that hp is made up of a ratio of torque and rpm.
Ant said:
So when other people say torque is not important and use lower gears or a closer ratio transmission, they don't realize that the achievement of using a lower gear is more torque multiplication for an higher reving engine where more of its torque is higher up in the rpm range along with the higher horsepower.
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Gearing is to get you into the powerband at whatever speed your doing, ideally an infinite drive that kept and engine at peak power during the whole quarter mile run would be the fastest.

Also yes gearing multiples torque (gain) but it does it by trading rpm (loss) for that torque, if a drivetrain didn't take energy to turn hp would stay the same from crank to the ground but torque and rpm (gain and loss) would just be swapped back and forth through the gears, why power would stay the same.
 
Ant said:
It depends on the type of performance and the level you desire. Both horsepower and torque need to be taken into consideration along with the power curve. Remember, a lot of us have street cars with 3 speed slush-o-matics and a highway rear gear, so an high rpm race engine is not fit for that use.

The augment cannot be one sided, dan is not going to be rotating the earth with his imaginary 318 build, I don't think that was his intention.
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I'm sure glad you are not a teacher in the medical field as you would want your students to have live subjects. Maybe you will learn and understand what doing research and planning in advance actually means.
 
Don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything but why is it that when ever I ask a question about anything, someone always has to mention the fact that I don't have a car yet, I know that. I've always liked doing the research on something before I buy it or do any modifications. I do have a good friend of mine who bought at least 2 or 3 carburetors and several different intake manifolds before he got a set up that would work for what he was wanting to do and I'm not going to do that stupid crap. When I get my car it may not be the fastest car out there but I know that it will run good and be fun to drive. I truly appreciate the help and support but the other comments I can do with out
 
Dan the man said:
Don't mean to sound like a jerk or anything but why is it that when ever I ask a question about anything, someone always has to mention the fact that I don't have a car yet, I know that. I've always liked doing the research on something before I buy it or do any modifications. I do have a good friend of mine who bought at least 2 or 3 carburetors and several different intake manifolds before he got a set up that would work for what he was wanting to do and I'm not going to do that stupid crap. When I get my car it may not be the fastest car out there but I know that it will run good and be fun to drive. I truly appreciate the help and support but the other comments I can do with out
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I suggest your friend had to buy more than one part because he got his info of forums where guys who’ve never built engines for a living.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
I suggest your friend had to buy more than one part because he got his info of forums where guys who’ve never built engines for a living.
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He listened to people's
Suggestions as for as I know. I don't know who builds engines on this forum for a living as the opinions, advice is all over the place
 
273 said:
hp is made up of a ratio of torque and rpm.
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Well, yes hp is the byproduct of torque, that is why torque is important, can't have hp without it.

273 said:
Gearing is to get you into the powerband at whatever speed your doing,
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That is is what I meant, but my explanation may be a bit complex and confusing.
273 said:
Hp ain't really about quickly
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It kinda is, because it's how much work can be done in whatever time it takes. (My head may have been off topic, because I was thinking about the reasons why we have a power adder on diesels.)

but both hp and torque are important and what you need will depend on the application. I think we are almost on the same page here, it's just how we word things that make things sound different.
Newbomb Turk said:
Right. And every single thing Dan said he wanted to do was *** backwards.
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He's learning, that's why he asked. I'm assuming the 500cfm carb may be a suggestion from one of those carb calculators.
 
Dan the man said:
I'm sure glad you are not a teacher in the medical field as you would want your students to have live subjects. Maybe you will learn and understand what doing research and planning in advance actually means.
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Dude, I just reloaded the page after sticking up for you and found this. Gee I wish I was not so late to respond.
 
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