I put a new thermostat in a slant when I changed out the leaking radiator. The new thermostat was junk, took it out and left off a thermostat, never ran hot again! ha Go figure.
Another overheating situation 63 Slant six
- Thread starter Hideogumperjr
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pishta
I know I'm right....
No stat will cause it to possible run cold (no time to cool in the radiator) , increasing cylinder wear. You want it to be about 180-185 for maximum driveability and minimal cylinder wear. take rad out and tape up the bottom feed. fill with 33% (1:2 acid to water in that order) pool acid for 5 minutes . Drain somewhere it wont etch, ie another bucket. flush out with fresh water hose for another 5 minutes. RUN A STAT! Can do the same with the block but its easier when its all buttoned up with some block flush and some engine heat. Pushers are always 2nd rate compared to pullers on a car and a shroud (any) will help with a puller. Even a very shallow one as long as it covers the entire radiator and makes the puller pull air across the entire core. your pusher at idle is only really affecting the area of the fans diameter.
@Hideogumperjr
I am not liking this, is this per instruction? I would like to see the sensor on the intake manifold if possible. Placement in the radiator can have very different temps depending where the sensor is placed. Me I would find the correct radiator for your car and the stock fan blades. If you still have your old radiator you can have a new core installed and using your stock brackets. You have ask yourself just when did your heating problems start....
Hideogumperjr
Well-Known Member
The o-heating started a couple of years ago, after I'd replaced the radiator and moved from the stock fan to the electric as best as I can remember. Its been so long I don't remember exactly.
The thermostat point is on the driver side of the upper tank at the same level as the top hose.
Ill check into the IR reader when I get back from Eastern Wa in 10 days or so.
Once I figure the issue Ill use the correct thermostat, removal has been for testing for any changes in issue only. As I said, I use the pusher fan only because the current and incorrect radiator is installed and it has the cooling coils biased into the engine compartment too far and a mechanical fan is too close to the core, could not even get to the bolts on the fan.
The water pump was from Napa last fall and the coolant is flowing rapido. So much so that as I was inside the car starting it and having left the radiator cap off, the coolant jumped up out of the radiator about a foot when I brapped the accelerator.
I contacted a local radiator place who said they could only diagnose the issue with the radiator in the car and eventually said I needed to contact a place up in Lake Stevens, Stan's north of here.
When I contacted them I asked about getting both the current one tanked and checked and the old original radiator tanked and checked also. I inquired about getting the old one re-cored if the tanks were not cracked and was quoted $550-$650, a tad too far out of my range. If bad I may just have to go the AL route. Don't know what else I can do without spending a ton of bucks and enough already sunk in the the Lil Thang.
Thanks for all the suggestions, any more?
cheers!
The thermostat point is on the driver side of the upper tank at the same level as the top hose.
Ill check into the IR reader when I get back from Eastern Wa in 10 days or so.
Once I figure the issue Ill use the correct thermostat, removal has been for testing for any changes in issue only. As I said, I use the pusher fan only because the current and incorrect radiator is installed and it has the cooling coils biased into the engine compartment too far and a mechanical fan is too close to the core, could not even get to the bolts on the fan.
The water pump was from Napa last fall and the coolant is flowing rapido. So much so that as I was inside the car starting it and having left the radiator cap off, the coolant jumped up out of the radiator about a foot when I brapped the accelerator.
I contacted a local radiator place who said they could only diagnose the issue with the radiator in the car and eventually said I needed to contact a place up in Lake Stevens, Stan's north of here.
When I contacted them I asked about getting both the current one tanked and checked and the old original radiator tanked and checked also. I inquired about getting the old one re-cored if the tanks were not cracked and was quoted $550-$650, a tad too far out of my range. If bad I may just have to go the AL route. Don't know what else I can do without spending a ton of bucks and enough already sunk in the the Lil Thang.
Thanks for all the suggestions, any more?
cheers!
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If you put it back stock, the over heating will probably end.
Hideogumperjr
Well-Known Member
yep, perhaps but so pricy, cant afford that right now. Readying some threads from SSdan and he is having good results with the aluminum one so, if bad Ill be post likely heading that way. Of course unless I run into a good deal somewhere. I do see US Radiator has a new copper/brass one for the similar price re-cored one.
I'm not sure I agree 100% with this. Since the coolant is flowing through the radiator, as long as the majority of the core is exposed to the core opening, I think it's in good shape. If the coolant was static in the radiator and didn't flow, it would be a different scenario, more like what you describe. But say for instance, someone has a 26" radiator where a 22" was......which is a popular swap, cutting the opening in the core support is totally unnecessary, IMO, as there is plenty of core exposed to the opening. If someone has an over heating problem in that particular situation, I believe it will be "somewhere else".
The copper/brass, while most costly does have an edge on the aluminum for cooling.
Couple of comments. The stat allows pressure to build up in the cooling system [ inside the engine ] because it becomes the restriction to flow. You obstruct the flow of a fluid, you build up pressure. This pressure subdues localised boiling around hotpots, like the exh valve area. Boiling water has air bubbles, & air is a poor conductor of heat. Anything that reduces or eliminates air bubbles aids cooling.
All else being equal, an alum rad cools better than copper brass. Alum allows the use of larger tubes which transfers heat better & the larger tubes also allow more efficient fin design. The fins release the heat to the air. The brass & solder in copper/brass rads are also poor heat conductors.
All else being equal, an alum rad cools better than copper brass. Alum allows the use of larger tubes which transfers heat better & the larger tubes also allow more efficient fin design. The fins release the heat to the air. The brass & solder in copper/brass rads are also poor heat conductors.
Fact: If every component is working properly and in good condition, these engines all ran cool 50 years ago and would so still today. If!
crooked1/2dozen
Well-Known Member
When I bought my fairly well maintained 64 slant I went for my first drive, went less than a mile and the Temp gauge was pegged. Nursed it home and took out thermostat and did a drainage test on rad which seemed unplugged. Still overheated right away. Took the water pump off and found that the press fit plastic impeller was spinning on the shaft. Strange failure. I'm used to seal or bearing failure. So an apparently normal looking pump may have failed. Maybe you can take a heater hose off and look for flow? Obviously in your driveway at idle! Or speeding down the pike, your call!
I'm not getting into a long drawn out argument over this, but you're slap wrong on this. There's tons of info out there on it.
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Right! It always amazes me how people try to reinvent the wheel.
Further to post #39: Copper v alum
"Copper is fairly weak, so to avoid coolant tubes exploding due to water pressure, the tubes must be kept quite narrow. Alum on the other hand is much stronger so the tubes can be twice as wide. The flow characteristics of a four row copper radiator are pretty much the same as two row alum core. However, when we consider the heat transfer area, the alum tubes easily win o the tune of up to 20% gain. The fins, which transfer het to the air passing through the core, only contact the flat sides of the tubes. The rounded ends of the tubes have no finning, so there is no heat transfer of any significance from this area. Thus with only twice the number of tube ends, the alum core will give up more heat to the fins.
"Copper is fairly weak, so to avoid coolant tubes exploding due to water pressure, the tubes must be kept quite narrow. Alum on the other hand is much stronger so the tubes can be twice as wide. The flow characteristics of a four row copper radiator are pretty much the same as two row alum core. However, when we consider the heat transfer area, the alum tubes easily win o the tune of up to 20% gain. The fins, which transfer het to the air passing through the core, only contact the flat sides of the tubes. The rounded ends of the tubes have no finning, so there is no heat transfer of any significance from this area. Thus with only twice the number of tube ends, the alum core will give up more heat to the fins.
1) Does the lower hose have a spiral anti-collapse spring in it from end to end?
2) If there appears to be a good bit of flow to You at idle, but winging the throttle causes coolant to shoot out of the neck, it would indicate a restriction in the rad/lower hose. Usually the coolant will try to come out of the neck on a sudden closing of the throttle after holding an elevated RPM due to inertia coming out of the head/upper hose & the abrupt lack of pump depression at the lower hose.
3) RRR is correct in that retarding the timing will waste/reject more heat to the coolant & exh. But 8deg initial w/the stk amount of mech advance shouldn't ever cause this much of an issue.
4) Where You live & the current temps, it should take a little bit of driving just to reach full thermostat cycling....fan operation be damned.
2) If there appears to be a good bit of flow to You at idle, but winging the throttle causes coolant to shoot out of the neck, it would indicate a restriction in the rad/lower hose. Usually the coolant will try to come out of the neck on a sudden closing of the throttle after holding an elevated RPM due to inertia coming out of the head/upper hose & the abrupt lack of pump depression at the lower hose.
3) RRR is correct in that retarding the timing will waste/reject more heat to the coolant & exh. But 8deg initial w/the stk amount of mech advance shouldn't ever cause this much of an issue.
4) Where You live & the current temps, it should take a little bit of driving just to reach full thermostat cycling....fan operation be damned.
famous bob
mopar misfit
Yeah, but they didnt put out the h.p. were getting out of them today !!
I don't understand why your core is "biased toward the engine compartment." I'm running a 67 Barracuda slant six radiator in my 63 Valiant. Had to trim the passenger side bracket, which was extra wide to fill the Barracuda radiator support's larger opening, but otherwise it fit like a glove.
Has your radiator ever been worked on? Sometimes the radiator shop won't solder the brackets back on in the correct position. I've had to use a propane torch to melt the solder to remove the brackets, then re-solder them on in the correct position - just to get proper fan clearance.
One other thing I've found: if you let a radiator sit without flushing it out, it will somehow clog up. Not sure I understand why, but I've been told that, and it's happened to me twice and caused an otherwise perfectly adequate radiator not to be able cool the motor at highway speeds. Both times getting the radiator boiled out fixed the problem.
Hideogumperjr
Well-Known Member
Sorry folks for not replying earlier but I spent the last week plus up in the Cascade mountains hiding out.
I've included a few pictures regarding some questions here.
First shows the location of the temp sensor.
Second shows how the one on the left is biased in towards the engine.
Third is another one of how the core of the radiator on the left is much closer to the engine that the original on the right.
I've included a few pictures regarding some questions here.
First shows the location of the temp sensor.
Second shows how the one on the left is biased in towards the engine.
Third is another one of how the core of the radiator on the left is much closer to the engine that the original on the right.
Take the brackets off your old radiator and put them on the new one. That will at least solve the core location issue. All you need is a wire brush, a propane torch and the correct solder (not electrical).
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
If you could drive it and cruise and it doesn't overheat and it only overheats when you accelerate hard or sitting idle or very very low speed idling you might want to see if your radiator cap is any good.
Hideogumperjr
Well-Known Member
ah, good thought on the brackets, Ill give it a try.
I did run a hose through bottom inlet and water came out just as fast as I put it in.
Re Moof, it overheats under any conditions. Here in the Seattle area its in the 60's and it still overheats in less than 10 minutes or two miles.
Thought Id just go ahead and buy a new aluminum, and yeah, I've read ad nauseam, the back and forth on aluminum vs copper, but copper is $600 vs $200 for aluminum, but cant find one online right now. Champion is out of stock.
Thanks guys.
I did run a hose through bottom inlet and water came out just as fast as I put it in.
Re Moof, it overheats under any conditions. Here in the Seattle area its in the 60's and it still overheats in less than 10 minutes or two miles.
Thought Id just go ahead and buy a new aluminum, and yeah, I've read ad nauseam, the back and forth on aluminum vs copper, but copper is $600 vs $200 for aluminum, but cant find one online right now. Champion is out of stock.
Thanks guys.
Hideogumperjr
Well-Known Member
So time for an update.
A perfect example of Occam's razor and the principle of parsimony, I took the radiator off and was going to go get it tanked at the radiator shop 20 miles away, but having read so many good suggestions, I decided to run the garden hose through the radiator. Turned it upside down and full blast, the water ran through without backing up at all. Thought I'd try my old radiator and water just trickled through. Nuff said.
I also took the suggestion of removing the brackets from the old radiator and putting them on the replacement. Not a totally perfect fit but none then less, I got them on.
Put the radiator in and drove the car and was able to go much further for longer this time just cruising and temp was about 160. I got on a back road and punched it really hard and fast for a little bit and watched the temp climb to about 210-215. I got home fan came on and cooled down pretty quickly.
I mounted the original 4 blade fan, yeah I know, get a flex blade, and had adequate clearance from the radiator.
Took her for another drive and the temp was down below 160.
Tomorrow or Tuesday it'll be a new thermostat and work on through the other issues.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions yall.
John
A perfect example of Occam's razor and the principle of parsimony, I took the radiator off and was going to go get it tanked at the radiator shop 20 miles away, but having read so many good suggestions, I decided to run the garden hose through the radiator. Turned it upside down and full blast, the water ran through without backing up at all. Thought I'd try my old radiator and water just trickled through. Nuff said.
I also took the suggestion of removing the brackets from the old radiator and putting them on the replacement. Not a totally perfect fit but none then less, I got them on.
Put the radiator in and drove the car and was able to go much further for longer this time just cruising and temp was about 160. I got on a back road and punched it really hard and fast for a little bit and watched the temp climb to about 210-215. I got home fan came on and cooled down pretty quickly.
I mounted the original 4 blade fan, yeah I know, get a flex blade, and had adequate clearance from the radiator.
Took her for another drive and the temp was down below 160.
Tomorrow or Tuesday it'll be a new thermostat and work on through the other issues.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions yall.
John
WHERE is the sensor for the fan? I'm lazy. I'm not readin through this whole thing to find out. lol
Hideogumperjr
Well-Known Member
See 1st photo on post #44. Its on the left.
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