Another possible issue?

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A couple of things.

Is that a check tool pushrod that is hitting? Are you concerned about the lock nuts hitting? Get a piece of 5/16 all thread or bar stock and cut it to length and see if you have an interference issue. Eyeball it by setting it in the lifter cup and line it up with the rocker ball.

How many threads on the adjuster are showing below the rocker body? How many are suggested? Sometimes it's 2 threads.
 
NOT TO BE RUDE, AND DON'T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY.
:stop: I will have to say, since you will not show the shop, who built the motor, any of these problems that you are having ,you are in the twilight zone.

I just read threw the original post from start to finish and i can't believe that you have not called the shop.
Your going to do so much stuff, that the shop will say you screwed it up instead of them.
I really don't think that a shop would plain one head 50 thousands more then the other head, and create a motor with a higher compression ratio on one side.
You seem like a cool guy and we are all trying to help, but WHAT'S THE DEAL.
YOU DID NOT NEED ADJUSTABLE ROCKER'S.
SHORTER PUSH ROD'S MAYBE, BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW SINCE YOU CAN'T CALL THE SHOP AND ASK HOW MUCH THE HEADS WERE CUT.
I am sorry, but what i just read about the cylinder head put me over the edge.:idea1: call the shop or continue with one of are favorite pass times.
 
Sorry....yes I meant .050 of an inch.

Not trying to discourage you in any way....Just trying to help you out so your not "putting brakes on a car that has no tires" and save ya some time and money maybe.

I know how it goes having limited to NO funds ...trust me lol...I have been working on my duster for about a year now and I have yet once again managed to drain my "duster fund" lol......so now I am done with SOME of the buying faze and focusing on some of the labor faze.

I know its gotta feel like when you finally feel like your getting somewhere someone comes along and knocks you back down......but if you stay layed down more stuff will keep on going wrong and it will pile up. All you can do is get your self up,brush off and do what you can to make sure it gets figured out.

Sometimes its best to take a break for awhile,let the funds catch up and let the frustrations fade away a bit and then get back on the job and tackle it.
 
I don't think you want to start milling parts to make them fit. Something is not right. Besides all the other issues mentioned you may also have leaks at the intake after milling. I would really try to find the bad part first. If the heads are off by .05 I would either get new heads or make the old ones right. I would be more concerned with the block being the bad part. Good luck Sir. I know it can be very frustrating using your hard earned money and seem like your getting no where. It will come together for you somehow just have faith.
 
The problem is it can either be the block is off or the heads aren't the same thickness. Therefore you really need to pull the heads and see. My guess is it's most likely a little of both. I've seen blocks off .015 from side to side but that's the worst I've seen them off. Usually they aren't even off that much so that leads me to think it's a higher possibility of the heads being off. Since the heads aren't a match one could have been milled more than the other. Sorry to give you more bad news as I know what you've went through with this engine but that's what really needs to be done. To answer an earlier question it would be worse for the valve train geometry to be off than the compression. And milling a head here cost about $35 if I remember right. Of course you need to hot tank it after also so add another $20-25 for that.
 
"I really don't think that a shop would plain one head 50 thousands more then the other head, and create a motor with a higher compression ratio on one side."

It's just a theory. I just remember the CC's being different on each head. Just to make the CC's equal on both sides or something?? I don't know? What I do know is one side is .050 higher then the other... for SOME reason?
Also there is a reason why I won't go back there. You'll have to trust me on that. The people that know the story understand fully well, and don't blame me one bit! There is a reason.

I can take off the heads, no big deal. $35 to mill a head, I can do. I was afraid it would be so much more! I'll inquire about the intake leak and all that too. Since the heads will be off should be easy enough to have looked at.

Yes, the block frightens me!! I Guess if the heads are in spec I'll know what the deal is. Can the block be re-decked at that point... or is the block a lost cause if that's the situation?
 
ok i dont know the whole story on your motor but i remember you having trouble a while back lol. i hate those cars that you think the only way to fix it is a full resto lol. by the sounds of it you might want to look into other heads. if side had different cc's then they fixed it and they are .050 off i would think heads of the same year and same car might be the best bet. maby get a buddy to sell those heads back to the shop and get a new set lol. i dont think the push rods are supposed to be at that kinda angle either??? i have never done much on engines that part is just not my cup of tea but i would think the rocker should be longer so its closer to a 90 degree angel between rocker and push rod. good luck man!
 
myasylum said:
Yes, the block frightens me!! I Guess if the heads are in spec I'll know what the deal is. Can the block be re-decked at that point... or is the block a lost cause if that's the situation?
Click to expand...

Since you said "can the block be re-decked" I assume that means they decked the block? If so you wouldn't think they'd have been that much off unless their totally stupid. If it does need to be decked that shouldn't be a problem but you have to totally disassemble it and then it has to be hot tanked after decking. The only way the block could be a lost cause is if it's been decked a whole bunch so that the pistons stick out of the hole too much to be usable.
 
Its the headers that piss me off! Man, do they suck!!

Well... here are some pics while is was being assembled for what that's worth. I don't know how "high" the pistons are/ or can sit?

DSC01125.JPG


DSC01124.JPG
 
myasylum please listen to me for one moment.
You are digging a hole for yourself and i am going to try to help you.OK:smile:
You have to look at two basic facts.:

1)The engine ran fine other then a ticking noise that turned out to be some lifters.
2)The old push rods did not have a problem running on the heads before,and there were no clearance problems with them threw the push rod holes.

Plus you were using the stamp steel rockers -with no clearance problems -with your valve retainers.
your valve train was fine the way it was.

Put the original valve train back on the motor and break in your new lifters.
THEN DO A COMPRESSION TEST TO CHECK YOUR COMPRESSION FOR EACH CYLINDER.
If the heads were cut even .050 thousands a piece, and you ran the engine with .050 thousands more pre-load then stock, it will run fine.
You only need to run the engine to 2500 rpm's for the break in of the lifters.

If you do this and all your noise is gone, and the compression test turns out fine,then you can go from there.

After this, if you feel you have to,you can use rocker shims to give your lifters less pre-load and keep everything the same.

1) YOU GET ALL THE ANSWERS YOU NEED ABOUT YOUR COMPRESSION RATIO WITH THE COMPRESSION TEST.
2)PLUS YOU HAVE NOT HURT ANYTHING BY BREAKING IN YOUR NEW SET OF LIFTERS.
3) YOU GET EVERYTHING YOUR AFTER AND MOST LIKELY JUST FIXED YOUR ENGINE.
It's that simple :thumbup:
 
myasylum said:
Its the headers that piss me off! Man, do they suck!!

Well... here are some pics while is was being assembled for what that's worth. I don't know how "high" the pistons are/ or can sit?
Click to expand...

I notice marking on the blocks deck which I would assume are what they wrote down to show the deck height? is there by chance a picture of the other side of the block that shows numbers? if so.....are thes numbers the same? if so than the block deck is most likely the same on both sides.

I would not reassemble the engine and run it as there is obviously some sort of problem/s thats alot of us are seeing....so putting it back together without addressing the issue/s is only wasting money on gaskets,fluids and time. IMO

You really just need to make sure that everything is in spec and you really need to know WHAT the specs are and you need to post as many pictures and ask as many questions as you can.....because with as many people on this forum that there are...there are alot of people who know what they are talking about and can help you make all the right moves....just remember that it is ok to ask a second opinion so don't always follow what one person tells you to do or what one person says is a problem.

I know on the last thread a certain member was pretty much stringing you along the way with advice and his expert opinion but alot of what he had said I did not agree with and he came off as knowing it all I guess.

Just don't give up on it....it gets better....you just gotta get things on the right track before things start rolling smoothly
 
T67POWER- You are right with what you are saying... but (or course theirs always a but)

The reason the lifters went bad was because the preload on one side was to high (about .083). If I know this... I could/ or should just shim that one side .050 and I should be o.k?

DusterDude72- Yes, there are a lot of different of opinions. Thats what makes situations like this difficult. Who do you believe?
I did call a shop around here, and he did say BOTH things. She said I could just use shim, BUT then he said in order to know what you have and what is going on I should take off the heads.

So it seems either could work... but??? I have to say... Just adding a few shims sure sounds easier, but since when is the easy way out the best way out?


Thanks.
 
DusterDude72- Of course I only have one picture on that side (go figure!) I can read a 9.5 something??? It gets all blurred after that. I think it's further indication though that the block should be o.k? It was at least checked. I don't think they would have written something on the side of the block that was wrong, and just left it. It seems they took off .010.

inkjunkie- You have no idea...
 
With a difference of .050 pushrod length between the banks, I'd advise pulling the heads and measuring stuff until the difference can be explained. It could be anything on that axis: rocker shaft pedestals relative to deck surface, deck height, etc. Running the source down before it takes a breath will probably save a lot of head-scratching later. While clinging to sanity may prove challenging - when it's all done, it's even harder to measure the satisfaction of knowing that everything is as it should be.

Keep systematically plugging away. It'll fall into place.
 
It looks like who ever did it had the skill and know how to do the job......they just did it there way maybe and didnt inform you of how that way was lol......which leaves you in the dark and appears odd.

I have no idea what they could have done but I would hope that they decked the block and milled the heads correctly and I would hope that was taken into consideration with the intake also because that will pull your heads away from the mounting surface of the intake and leave a gap.

If it was done right everything would have been checked and measured and clayed and gauged and everything but theres no saying what they did to it if you do not know and if you have no way of finding out.

BUT if it was a running engine...I would hope/think that most of the lower end atleast was built correctly and I would assume your piston to head clearance was good ....so mainly you need to focus on what needs to be done to make sure your valve train is all in spec and ready to go.
 
Take a vernier caliper and measure the thickness of the head where the first lower bolt seats... If one head was cut more you'll see it. If not, the deck was. On the pushrod deal.. If they hit, you have to address it. That is where they hit on most heads so as was mentioned, run a 5/16 pushrod (I think you're doing that looking at it) and clearance the hole. Stock rockers are normally around 1.45:1 ratio rather than 1.5 and that difference is the location of the pushrod dimple. An adjustable rocker moves that spot closer to the head which leans the pushrod in, and a higher true 1.5 ratio will do the same. I would not clearance it with the heads on but many have without a big deal.
 
Thats where T67Power had a good point. With the stock rockers, the pushrods didn't hit the head. So I see what he is saying. These are Crane Iron rockers that are suppose to be 1.5 ratio, so what mopar is saying seems to be accurate, and why they are hitting.

I haven't started yet, I wanted to get a overall opinion before I start.

Thanks guys!
 
I was just about to say measure the head thickness on the front lower corner but Moper beat me to it. That thickness should be real close to the same on both heads (within a few thousandths). Also putting shims under the rocker shafts just to have less lifter pre-load may not be a good way to go about it because that raises the rocker shaft which can affect rocker arm geometry. You might be ok doing it but you need to do a rocker arm sweep to make sure it's ok. If it does affect geometry to the point that the rocker tip is running off the valve stem or even coming close to going off the stem you shouldn't do it. You need to get shorter pushrods.
 
From what I gather, It seems as though adding shims on one side is about equivalent as having two different size push rods on each side. :dontknow:
 
Something to think about::-k

I believe you are wasting your time \\\ WHY????

You are trying to fix a problem that does not exist. WHY????

I believe you measured the amount of pre- load wrong.

I believe everything is fine with your motor and your looking for a needle in a hay stack.
If i am wrong then please answer these two questions (anybody):read2:

1)how would you make a intake manifold fit a motor that has one head cut .050 thousands of a inch more then the other??????

ANSWER {{{ IT WOULD NOT EVEN BOLT UP DUE TO IT BEING UNEVEN.}}}

The only way this could be done is to have both cylinder heads milled, on the intake side,cut different amounts and at two different angles.
This is a complete joke.

2)How would you make a intake manifold fit a motor with two different deck heights.
AGAIN IT WILL NOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO BOLTING UP.
If the shop was good enough to ever do this, why wouldn't they just mill the other side of the block or heads to make them even.

That's like getting a flat tire and building a new suspension on the car for the spare tire to work with.


What can we learn from this.

everything your talking about is false.

What your talking about is almost impossible.

Put the motor back together with the original rocker gear and break in your new lifters.

Sorry to seem harsh ,i am not,i just can't sit and watch a good motor be torn up over this.
8-[
Hey,no disrespect 8) I am really just trying to help.
I don't know everything and i don't mean to come across like i do.
Working on anything over a computer and not being present is always a challenge.Good luck
 
Hey myasylum, got mine up and running yesterday. As you know, my rods were close, too. Almost looked like they were touching.
Well, since I installed new lifters, I fired it up and ran it at 2500 RPM for 20 minutes and 2000 for another 10. Settled it down, adjusted the timing, set the idle mixture and shut it off to change oil and filter.
I decided to pop off the valve covers and check for scraped rods. Not a mark on one rod! They ARE very close, but no problems. I even took it for a little drive and pounded the snot out of it. Ate dinner and off come the valve covers again. Rods are fine.
Other than a horrible electrical gremlin that's been plagueing me for 6 months, the car ran fine.
 
As much as it pains me to agree with T67... He makes a valid point I was overlooking...lol. Might want to triple check your measurements. Are you positive the ones you checked were on the lobes' base circle?
 
Yea... I'm taking a bit of a break, lol! I'll be back at it soon. Maybe tomorrow.

But yes, they were on base circle. I was quite anal checking both sides a couple of times. Just to make sure I'm going to have a couple friends look at it too. I'm not going to say a word, and just see what they come up with. This is one of those situations where I actually hope I'm wrong! :)

Like I say, the mechanic I talked too, did agree with T67 and too just add shims. BUT he also mentioned that, that's not actually "correct".

It's just funny to me how confident T67 is! lol! It's not a rip or anything, it's amusing really :)

To answer one of his questions though... Wouldn't the intake still fit at .050?" I mean if it was .50, well then Hell yea, I'd agree, that wouldn't be possible. .050 I'd think it would be.

As I say... Both heads were milled before the CC's were checked. Then after the CC's were measured it was realized the one head was pretty far off from the other. When I came back in to talk to him, he had the heads complete with the valves and all, and he told me that he got the CC's even. How? I don't know.

However... If I am wrong like I hope I am... this is all irrelevant babble :dontknow:
 
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