Any Ham Radio Guys Here?

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mullinax95 said:
. I didn't see in the instructions that it had to be grounded to the same ground rod to the house..
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I does not. The main reason you ground an antenna in many cases is for a "safety" and "lightning" ground.

If the radio/ power supply somehow came ungrounded and some fault which allowed the metallic ground and coax shield to become "hot" (IT HAS HAPPENED) then if you are out--doors, say, and contact any part of the coax system, you could be in trouble.

Second reason, of course, is lightning.

Also, you will -- as you troll the www -- find a lot of talk about an "RF ground." This is something you need to consider as well.

You guys who "came from CB" know that a basic quarter wave antenna is about 9 ft, and one on the 10M amateur band is around 8 ft. This means that if you are having "RF feedback" issues on 10M and you install a ground, attempting to eliminate the problem, by the time you get 8ft of wire out your window to the ground rod outside IS NO GROUND AT ALL because it is in fact a 1/4 wave antenna!!!
 
67Dart273 said:
Congrats


A year or two ago there was an "out of towner" on the local repeater joking with someone about "fake phonetics"

His call was something like KN1O and he joked that "I've been known to use the very helpful phonetics "Know No 1 One".
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LOL! I gotta let my one ham bud in on that "one".

67Dart273 said:
It does not.

The NEC says it does per section 810. This is to prevent any one ground from being better than the other which would cause flashover. If additional grounds are used, they should be tied with the house ground with a 6 AWG copper cable.

The main reason you ground an antenna in many cases is for a "safety" and "lightning" ground.

If the radio/ power supply somehow came ungrounded and some fault which allowed the metallic ground and coax shield to become "hot" (IT HAS HAPPENED) then if you are out--doors, say, and contact any part of the coax system, you could be in trouble.

Second reason, of course, is lightning.

Also, you will -- as you troll the www -- find a lot of talk about an "RF ground." This is something you need to consider as well.

You guys who "came from CB" know that a basic quarter wave antenna is about 9 ft, and one on the 10M amateur band is around 8 ft. This means that if you are having "RF feedback" issues on 10M and you install a ground, attempting to eliminate the problem, by the time you get 8ft of wire out your window to the ground rod outside IS NO GROUND AT ALL because it is in fact a 1/4 wave antenna!!!
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That's why the coax itself should be grounded and once again, to the house ground rod. :) Don't forget about static buildup from the wind too.

fishy68 said:
Not all LMR400 is real stiff. They make it in a flex series too. Just for info.
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I believe it's called "ultra flex".
 
Here's a pictorial of the NEC code:
 

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Ok all you ham experts out there, got a question. I still haven't gone on the air yet because I'm debating antennas. First of all, I'm finding out that this is not a cheap hobby. :) Second of all, I found that we hams have a new opening on 60 m. We are secondary users but it's still pretty darn cool. Third of all, i think I found a good starter antenna system for the 6m/2m/70cm bands. It's a Cushcraft tri-band yagi with the 6m horizontaly polarized and the 2m/70cm vertically polarized. I'll need aa antenna rotator but since the whole array weighs under ten pounds, I figure a good tv antenna rotator will work. Watcha all think? here's the link: http://www.cushcraftamateur.com/Product.php?productid=A627013S
 
Some rabid comments

(I guess you meant 6M not 60M)

That Cushcraft "depends what you want to do." if I wanted an antenna (here) to work repeaters and for general use, I'd just put up some sort of ominidirectional, like a vertical, that is for 2 meters.

Second, most people working DX simplex on 2 want HORIZONTAL polarization, not vertical. I didn't read the whole pdf, but saw no obvious mention of being able to configure the 2m section hor., only pictured as vertical.

It might be a PITA to rotate it a lot for different repeaters in your area--but it just depends. I'd find out what you NEED for local work

Also, don't go by an antenna's weight for a rotator. You need to go by the rated WIND LOADING which I believe stated 2.5 sq ft. If you live in a gusty, high winds area you might want to add a fudge factor. Ask around locally to see what the locals are doing.

(It depends on what you call a TV rotator, too)

If you live in a winter area that sees wet snow and ice on power lines, that will add a HUGE factor to antenna loading.

Frankly, if I were you, I'd put up a simple little vertical--you can MAKE a 1/4 w antenna in minutes, there are scads of "how to" around the www

There are SOME articles you can download from the ARRL, but unfortunately you have to be a member for much of it:

You have to browze the left side menu, a PITA

http://www.arrl.org/radio-technology-topics

quarter wave:

http://www.hamuniverse.com/2metergp.html

http://www.hamuniverse.com/kc0ynr2metergppvc.html

http://v33.takeforum.com/2009/01/19/simple-2-meter-ground-plane/

You can google "j pole" until you are blue in the face

One thing I advise you to investigate is whether there are any "on the air" swap nets or clubs in the area. Look for "ham fests." What I'd suggest is that you find a couple of ARRL handbooks. They can be found pretty cheap, even on Ebay. Some of the older ones, back in the 60's are interesting, but mostly "tube" oriented. But I've picked up a 90's edition CHEAP at a hamfest, and the theory hasn't changed--only the way projects are built.
 
As 67Dart273 say you want horiz for any kind of dx/distance work on 6/2/70 and verticial for repeater and local rag chewing. The Crunchcraft ant looks kind of all inclusive but you need to call them and see if you can flip the 2/70 section to horizontal for any real advantage to spending your money.Joe if you remember 3 pages ago I said " if you think cars are crazy wait to get going in radio " My wife actually likes the cars better then the radio because of the cost. This all can be done though just like the cars if you learn to build alot of your own stuff and shop around the net and hamfests for good deals. Alot of radio stuff is like our cars,old but still fun and usefull. This is just like cars it all depends on how crazy you want to be, in the pile ups or how loud in the local rag chew.As fsr as coax even 9913 will work for your short runs from the shack to the antenna,it's not like you are going hundreds of feet.Good luck and have fun I'm looking foward to see how you do. '73 Bruce
 
67Dart273 said:
Some rabid comments

(I guess you meant 6M not 60M)

Nope, I meant 60! On July 3, 2003 the FCC opened up 5 specific channels on 60 meters for ham use. 5330.5 khz, 5346.5 khz, 5366.5 khz, 5371.5 khz and 5403.5 khz. Hams have secondary use of these frequencies and must not interfere with the military and are limited to 50w ERP. Pretty cool though! Obviously this is for general class holders and above only.

That Cushcraft "depends what you want to do." if I wanted an antenna (here) to work repeaters and for general use, I'd just put up some sort of ominidirectional, like a vertical, that is for 2 meters.

Second, most people working DX simplex on 2 want HORIZONTAL polarization, not vertical. I didn't read the whole pdf, but saw no obvious mention of being able to configure the 2m section hor., only pictured as vertical.

I read a review on this antenna where they called Cushcraft and they stated that the main tubular beam could be rotated 30 degrees for the best of both worlds and supposedly the user did and still was able to achieve skip on 6m. :read2: My logic in thinking that thnis would be a good all around antenna is that with vertical polarization on 2m/70 i would be be able pick a repeater and shoot right at it but still be able to rag chew with a given individual (simplex) once i dailed in thier location.

After reading your response I just realized that having a vertical beam could cause issues if I were on a net, as some may not be able to hear me and I'd have to track someone who was mobile. This could be a PITA and would make more sense if I were 30+ miles out of the city rather than centrally located, which I am.

Thank you so much for your input and it is hardly rabid and as a matter of fact, it is greatly appreciated! The Cushcraft is out and a 2m/70cm vertical omni is in. I sure would like to try some 6m DX in the future though but it appears that the further I want to go, the more it will cost, lol. I think it would behoove me to just get in on the local stuff and refine my technique and get to know a few guys. I have tons more to learn.

It might be a PITA to rotate it a lot for different repeaters in your area--but it just depends. I'd find out what you NEED for local work

In light of last comments, I wholeheartedly agree. It might be be fun to hit the repeaters in Colorado Springs with the 2m/70cm vertical beam but other than that, I really don't see the use of the cushcraft, in my geographical area with the exception of having the 6m horizontal beam for some state to state dx.

Also, don't go by an antenna's weight for a rotator. You need to go by the rated WIND LOADING which I believe stated 2.5 sq ft. If you live in a gusty, high winds area you might want to add a fudge factor. Ask around locally to see what the locals are doing.

(It depends on what you call a TV rotator, too)

If you live in a winter area that sees wet snow and ice on power lines, that will add a HUGE factor to antenna loading.

I was looking at a high end tv antenna rotator, about a hundred bucks.

Frankly, if I were you, I'd put up a simple little vertical--you can MAKE a 1/4 w antenna in minutes, there are scads of "how to" around the www

There are SOME articles you can download from the ARRL, but unfortunately you have to be a member for much of it:

You have to browze the left side menu, a PITA

http://www.arrl.org/radio-technology-topics

quarter wave:

http://www.hamuniverse.com/2metergp.html

http://www.hamuniverse.com/kc0ynr2metergppvc.html

http://v33.takeforum.com/2009/01/19/simple-2-meter-ground-plane/

You can google "j pole" until you are blue in the face

I'll check that out. A fellow hammer told me was actually able to hit Colorado Springs with a 500mw HT and a homemade dipole! QRP is cool!

One thing I advise you to investigate is whether there are any "on the air" swap nets or clubs in the area. Look for "ham fests." What I'd suggest is that you find a couple of ARRL handbooks. They can be found pretty cheap, even on Ebay. Some of the older ones, back in the 60's are interesting, but mostly "tube" oriented. But I've picked up a 90's edition CHEAP at a hamfest, and the theory hasn't changed--only the way projects are built.
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More great info! Thanks again!

BARNEY'S CAR said:
As 67Dart273 say you want horiz for any kind of dx/distance work on 6/2/70 and verticial for repeater and local rag chewing. The Crunchcraft ant looks kind of all inclusive but you need to call them and see if you can flip the 2/70 section to horizontal for any real advantage to spending your money.Joe if you remember 3 pages ago I said " if you think cars are crazy wait to get going in radio " My wife actually likes the cars better then the radio because of the cost. This all can be done though just like the cars if you learn to build alot of your own stuff and shop around the net and hamfests for good deals. Alot of radio stuff is like our cars,old but still fun and usefull. This is just like cars it all depends on how crazy you want to be, in the pile ups or how loud in the local rag chew.As fsr as coax even 9913 will work for your short runs from the shack to the antenna,it's not like you are going hundreds of feet.Good luck and have fun I'm looking foward to see how you do. '73 Bruce
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Thanks Bruce and i'll be sure to you updated! Thanks for the added info and one day, I hope we can QSL. :read2:

mullinax95 said:
I like going here to program my digital scanner.

http://www.radioreference.com/

Ham radio on raidoreference.

http://forums.radioreference.com/amateur-radio-general-discussion/
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Thanks for the info Marland! it's back to the books for me if I hope to get my General Class.
 
Joe,

I noticed that you're talking about transmitting on the 6m band. Everyone around here talks on the 2m band.

http://vip.hyperusa.com/~dougs/Ham/VHFuhfBanPlan.jpg

When they are talking my scanner shows the 140+ MHz. I never get anyone on the 6m band around here. Does location make a difference I'm guessing?

I was listening to them last night and they have "meetings" which I thought was pretty cool.
 
mullinax95 said:
Joe,

I noticed that you're talking about transmitting on the 6m band. Everyone around here talks on the 2m band.

http://vip.hyperusa.com/~dougs/Ham/VHFuhfBanPlan.jpg

When they are talking my scanner shows the 140+ MHz. I never get anyone on the 6m band around here. Does location make a difference I'm guessing?

I was listening to them last night and they have "meetings" which I thought was pretty cool.
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I know you asked Joe but I thought I'd throw in my .02 and say that probably the biggest reason you don't hear anything on 6 meters is most guys talk on SSB not FM and they use horizontally polarized antenna's so your vertical scanner antenna doesn't receive much of what's even there. Area does make a difference too. 6 meters is pretty active around me but other area's are dead.
 
mullinax95 said:
Joe,

I noticed that you're talking about transmitting on the 6m band. Everyone around here talks on the 2m band.

http://vip.hyperusa.com/~dougs/Ham/VHFuhfBanPlan.jpg

When they are talking my scanner shows the 140+ MHz. I never get anyone on the 6m band around here. Does location make a difference I'm guessing?

I was listening to them last night and they have "meetings" which I thought was pretty cool.
Click to expand...

Fishy is right on about SSB and horizontaly polarized antennas. I've got an old Bearcat scanner and I can't pick up squat on 6m (50 mhz) and I know from other local hams that it can be quite active. One cool thing about 6m is that it's the highest frequency that can bounce off the ionosphere and can allow for some good distance with the proper antenna. It's the same as "skip" that CB guys talk about but the correct term is "Propagation". CB is in the 11 meter band and when conditions are right, a person can talk cross country. I once spoke with a guy from Canada (Vancouver BC) from here in Colorado on my POS Cobra LTD29 in my truck. Granted I had a big antenna, but the radio was stock 4 watts. He thought I was lying about my equipment and location, lol!

Those meetings are what hams call "nets". Cool way to meet local people and they are advertised as usualy having a topic. The best way to work a net is with a vertical omni-directional antenna as there is no knowing where the participants are located. This also explains why you can readily pick them up.

An another note, an antenna that is horizontally polarized is what is known as a "Beam" and are very directional. A beam is best used to try contact someone from a distance at known location as the antenna is rotated toward the contact geographically. These antennas have forward gain that concentrate the radio energy in one direction. Keep in mind that a gain of 3db effectively doubles the incoming energy. Many beams have a gain of 8, 10 and even 15 db! But, there is the effect of polarization. I've read that a horizontal beam actually loses a tremendous 24db when trying to contact a vertically polarized contact and vice versa.

I hope I cleared some of this stuff up Marland and you old hams, please correct me where I'm wrong. I sure as heck don't know everything and I have lots to learn.

fishy68 said:
I know you asked Joe but I thought I'd throw in my .02 and say that probably the biggest reason you don't hear anything on 6 meters is most guys talk on SSB not FM and they use horizontally polarized antenna's so your vertical scanner antenna doesn't receive much of what's even there. Area does make a difference too. 6 meters is pretty active around me but other area's are dead.
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Thanks Fishy for jumping in! Please correct me in my explanation if there are any errors. :read2:
 
ramcharger said:
an antenna that is horizontally polarized is what is known as a "Beam" and are very directional
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Actually a beam does not have to be horizontal.

Something that might be either vertical or horizontal, like a 2 meter yagi or log periodic, is still a beam. It's just that especially on 10M and lower in frequency, a vertically polarized tower mounted beam is not really good for much of anything. It used to be popular--around here at least--to see CB beams mounted vertically.

There are many designs that are directional, a dish, yagi, log periodic, a 2 or more element "quad" along with various forms of wire (HF) or tube (VHF) antennas, such as a phased system like a "colinear."

Also, on the lower HF bands, horizontal is not always "the thing." Many DX antennas on 10M and lower in frequency are high-performance verticals or vertical arrays, many times "ground mounted." But even this is not always true. The Cushcraft "1/2 wave" vertical designs, the R3, 5, and 7 designs were quite popular
 
67Dart273 said:
Actually a beam does not have to be horizontal.

Something that might be either vertical or horizontal, like a 2 meter yagi or log periodic, is still a beam. It's just that especially on 10M and lower in frequency, a vertically polarized tower mounted beam is not really good for much of anything. It used to be popular--around here at least--to see CB beams mounted vertically.

There are many designs that are directional, a dish, yagi, log periodic, a 2 or more element "quad" along with various forms of wire (HF) or tube (VHF) antennas, such as a phased system like a "colinear."

Also, on the lower HF bands, horizontal is not always "the thing." Many DX antennas on 10M and lower in frequency are high-performance verticals or vertical arrays, many times "ground mounted." But even this is not always true. The Cushcraft "1/2 wave" vertical designs, the R3, 5, and 7 designs were quite popular
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You are 100% correct! The Cushcraft I was looking at had vertical beams for 70cm/2m and yes, there is more to life than yagis.

Thanks for the correction! I was hoping you would chime in. :read2:
 
OK, almost on the air! Got my antenna up with the help of some friends this weekend. It's a good thing I brought two friends over because this sucker is tall. The antenna itself is a Diamond X510HDM which is 17.2' tall on 10' of masting. The specs are 2m/70cm, 8.3/11.7 db of gain, 330/250 watts max power. Wind rating is 90 mph. The cable used is cable experts 1318 which is about identical to 9913 in loss and size. Ground cable from mast is insulatated 6 awg copper.
 

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The cable feeds into a waterproof PVC box with a 1/4"+ thick aluminum plate mounted on rubber isolators (upper shock mounts ;) ) which then runs to a lightning arrestor rated to 500 mhz and then to a three position switch (A, B and ground). One feed will go to the garage and the other into the house. This way I can move my radio to either side. Note in the second pic that I have the whole plate grounded to the house ground. It's an 8" x 8" box so it's a tight fit, but I should still have room to put in another coax and arrestor for HF (6m) when the time comes.
 

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And this is my ditch for the 1 1/4" PCV that will run to the garage for the next leg of 1318. It's deeper than it looks. Maxi jumped in to check it out and it's deeper than she is tall. The elbows are large radius 90's that will ease the pull and I'll also be running phone and data cable. May as well.
 

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Well I must say I did not know much about what it takes to use the air ways these days :tongue9::tongue9:
This thread has been quite an eye opener for me and learned allot and still trying to soak it all in ramcharger #-o Congratulations on passing your test and getting your antenna up :colors:
and I must say I am in the dark on all of the lingo, looks like you will be enjoying it real soon.

This could be something for me to look closer into :glasses8:
Thank you for another great learning/teaching thread :rock:
 
I gotta say "good job!!" Around here, lightning is not such a big concern. I used to work installing telco/ radio gear for 911 and other com systems for a few years, climbed some towers, and helped install some upgrade ground systems.

If you google around you can probably find a Motorola publication about ground systems. I don't remember the name of it anymore.

That Polyphaser is a great idea, but don't forget they can become damaged after awhile. I don't know if there is a good way to test them or not.
 
memike said:
Well I must say I did not know much about what it takes to use the air ways these days :tongue9::tongue9:
This thread has been quite an eye opener for me and learned allot and still trying to soak it all in ramcharger #-o Congratulations on passing your test and getting your antenna up :colors:
and I must say I am in the dark on all of the lingo, looks like you will be enjoying it real soon.

This could be something for me to look closer into :glasses8:
Thank you for another great learning/teaching thread :rock:
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Thanks Mike, I still have lots to learn too! Just thought I'd pass on what I did learn so far.

67Dart273 said:
I gotta say "good job!!" Around here, lightning is not such a big concern. I used to work installing telco/ radio gear for 911 and other com systems for a few years, climbed some towers, and helped install some upgrade ground systems.

If you google around you can probably find a Motorola publication about ground systems. I don't remember the name of it anymore.

That Polyphaser is a great idea, but don't forget they can become damaged after awhile. I don't know if there is a good way to test them or not.
Click to expand...

Thanks 67Dart! Lightning and static build up are a big deal around here due to the windy, dry, dusty air and short violent storms we get in the spring. That's why the first thing I did was get that sucker grounded. I did quite a bit of research and talked to a few people, checked Polyphasers website and consulted a friends NEC manual.

The lightning arrestor has a replaceable gas tube and the switch also has lightning arresting capabilities too with a replaceable carbon. It's set on the ground position right now...

Thanks again for all the help and am looking to be on the air this weekend. My one friend who helped put up the antenna hooked up an adapter to his Yeasu HT just for fun and said the background noise was very, very quiet and could easlily hear FM in the S2 range with very little interference. Late Sunday I ran the cable to my garage just for fun and hooked up my transciever. He was right, background static noise was very, very low. We'll see how it does when I'm done.
 
Man Joe things are looking real good! I'm getting ready to put up a new 70' Rohn 45 tower as soon as my foot heals up. On it will be my 6 meter, 2 meter, and 432 beams stacked and I plan on loading the tower to use it as a vertical on 160 and 80.
 
Hi Joe, nice to see all the progress. You will have fun the more you learn and the crazier you get. As far as lightning nothing beats just good old disconnecting,a big enough hit will blow though everything you are doing. Granted your work will lessen the damage but it always finds a path. I have taken a few thru the years the biggest was well over 20k in damages to radio's and house appliances. Even though I had a rider on the insurance they told me to buzz off after they paid for what I claimed. I am finishing up repairs on my 80m four square box,my stack match box and one Ameritron switch from a hit in the spring that came up the ground side....always something.Hope to hear you on 6m this summer. Try to get a hor beam up for 6 if you can when the band opens even 3 elements at 25 or 30 feet and 100w can work to Europe, South America,Caribbean or Pacific no problem at all. Get yourself a grid square map and have at it.......'73 Bruce K9RO
 
Fishy68, Are you going to insulate the tower from grond or just put it up normal? Seventy feet with just 3 antennas might not be enough to get it to 160.6/2/7o beams are not alot of area and might not be enough top hat to get the tower to play on 160 without building some kind of match to make up for lack of area. Just a thought for you good luck with the project. i have to take down the 3 stack of kt34xas and my 40m beam this summer and repair them all. The 40 is a 3 element KLM that lost the reflector in or blizzard in Feb and the stack is just pooped after 12 years.I've 6el at 50ft and 7el at 100ft for 6m but never seem to get into the house when the band is going,day late and a dollar short,always. Have fun and maybe I'll catch you on the bands this summer
'73 Bruce
 
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