Any Ham Radio Guys Here?

[fishy68]

Fishy68, Are you going to insulate the tower from grond or just put it up normal? Seventy feet with just 3 antennas might not be enough to get it to 160.6/2/7o beams are not alot of area and might not be enough top hat to get the tower to play on 160 without building some kind of match to make up for lack of area. Just a thought for you good luck with the project. i have to take down the 3 stack of kt34xas and my 40m beam this summer and repair them all. The 40 is a 3 element KLM that lost the reflector in or blizzard in Feb and the stack is just pooped after 12 years.I've 6el at 50ft and 7el at 100ft for 6m but never seem to get into the house when the band is going,day late and a dollar short,always. Have fun and maybe I'll catch you on the bands this summer
'73 Bruce

I'm going to insulate it and I figured I'll have to build a matching system since it's a little short and because I also want it to work on 80. Hopefully I can get it to work on 160 because I don't have enough room for a wire antenna.

Bummer on the KLM losing the reflector. That's the bad thing where we are. Winter plays havoc on our antenna's.

I know what you mean about missing the openings. I try to watch the reflectors and get an idea in advance when something might be happening but it never fails I get busy for a few days and that's when it happens. Hope to catch you on some time too. 73, Tracy

 

[67Dart273]

I'm going to insulate it

I wish you'd rethink that. Something that large fed at the base is a REAL threat for lightning. There are many ways to feed a grounded tower and much much safer.

I might point out that any old school AM towers that are fed from an insulated base have MUCH more elaborate protection than most of us can provide, and even then some of it causes damage, AND---it's not your house that might burn down, either.

 

[fishy68]

I wish you'd rethink that. Something that large fed at the base is a REAL threat for lightning. There are many ways to feed a grounded tower and much much safer.

I might point out that any old school AM towers that are fed from an insulated base have MUCH more elaborate protection than most of us can provide, and even then some of it causes damage, AND---it's not your house that might burn down, either.

My plan also consisted of using a heavy duty continuous duty contactor I scavenged from an old electric forklift that'll ground the tower at the base unless I'm using it on 80/160 but if you have any references on how to feed it grounded I'd sure love to see them as I haven't seen much on it.

 

[67Dart273]

It would take a HUGE contactor to guarantee protection from a strike. Part of the problem of safely protecting a tower is the inductance of the ground system, IE you want a VERY low inductance path, because a strike can essentially be a pulse, which effectively contains many components of high to low frequencies, and may not handily follow the intended ground path.

Google stuff like "shunt feeding a tower"

[ame="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1173&bih=635&q=shunt+feed%2C+tower&aq=f&aqi=g-s1g-v1&aql=&oq="]shunt feed, tower - Google Search[/ame]

 

[fishy68]

It would take a HUGE contactor to guarantee protection from a strike. Part of the problem of safely protecting a tower is the inductance of the ground system, IE you want a VERY low inductance path, because a strike can essentially be a pulse, which effectively contains many components of high to low frequencies, and may not handily follow the intended ground path.

Google stuff like "shunt feeding a tower"

shunt feed, tower - Google Search

I don't know it's exact rating but on the forklift it came off of 1200 amps continuous was drawn through it so it's pretty darn big. I also believe it should be real low inductance since the contacts are 1" wide by 3/16 thick copper strips with pure silver contacts. I realize that's nothing compared to what lightening can produce but I figure if lightening smoked it, it'd most likely blow just about any ground wire(s) I grounded the tower with. I look at lightening this way, is there really such a thing as a "guaranteed protection" with what we have access to? I'll do more research on shunt feeding it. Thanks, Tracy

 

[67Dart273]

Someplace on the www --wish I could find it -- was a picture on a commercial tower site someone climbing a BIG tower, several hundred footer--and right there in front of you is a section of tower leg at a flange COMPLETELY GONE!!! I don't remember if it was a 3 or 4 leg tower, but I sure wouldn't have wasted time getting down off of there.

This site here has some interesting articles. Think you can afford to climb "disconnected?" Read THIS:

http://www.wirelessestimator.com/t_content.cfm?pagename=Tower Climber Lawsuit

 

[ramcharger]

Man Joe things are looking real good! I'm getting ready to put up a new 70' Rohn 45 tower as soon as my foot heals up. On it will be my 6 meter, 2 meter, and 432 beams stacked and I plan on loading the tower to use it as a vertical on 160 and 80.

Thanks Fishy! I had the pleasure of meeting a working AM radio chief engineer last Monday on a job for a radio station. :glasses8: Talk about dumb luck! He showed me his contesting certificate from Costa Rica and he had something like 2,300,000 points. He also mentioned that he'll be in Dayton for the next contest. I guess there's something like $15K in prizes. He also said to send him pics of my set up and he'll critique it for me plus he gave me the freqs of his repeaters, I guess he's got a whole bunch. He pointed out one on some huge tower out the 6th floor window of the radio station. :mrgreen: His call sign is N0ZUO and he's a heck of nice guy and couldn't stop talking once I mentioned that I just got my tech license.

Sounds like your going to be getting out just fine once that tower is up and running!

Hi Joe, nice to see all the progress. You will have fun the more you learn and the crazier you get. As far as lightning nothing beats just good old disconnecting,a big enough hit will blow though everything you are doing. Granted your work will lessen the damage but it always finds a path. I have taken a few thru the years the biggest was well over 20k in damages to radio's and house appliances. Even though I had a rider on the insurance they told me to buzz off after they paid for what I claimed. I am finishing up repairs on my 80m four square box,my stack match box and one Ameritron switch from a hit in the spring that came up the ground side....always something.Hope to hear you on 6m this summer. Try to get a hor beam up for 6 if you can when the band opens even 3 elements at 25 or 30 feet and 100w can work to Europe, South America,Caribbean or Pacific no problem at all. Get yourself a grid square map and have at it.......'73 Bruce K9RO

Thanks Bruce! Yeah, I guess if lightning can travel 2 miles down, my piddly set up is no gaurantee, lol! I just wanted to minimize damage and keep the house from blowing up. Disconnection will certainly be on the leaving for work list. I was looking at building a 3 element 6m, I'll let you know how it goes. As you know, antenna rotators are not cheap.... for decent one anyway. My transmittiter is only capable of 50W on 6m but climbs to 100W on HF, would that amount of power on 6m allow me to work some the U.S. grid (east of the rockies) and maybe Canada? Is it possible to talk to the west coast via skip?

Getting a grid map is certainly on the list. Just curious, would it be possible for you and Fishy to reach each other straight simplex on 6m if you pointed your beams right at each other?

Thanks again to everyone for all your input. Time for me to start laying some PVC while the sun is still out.

'73 KD0NTS

 

[ramcharger]

Someplace on the www --wish I could find it -- was a picture on a commercial tower site someone climbing a BIG tower, several hundred footer--and right there in front of you is a section of tower leg at a flange COMPLETELY GONE!!! I don't remember if it was a 3 or 4 leg tower, but I sure wouldn't have wasted time getting down off of there.

AAACKK! You gotta find that picture!

 

[OneBadDart]

If you are looking for a rotor I have a Ham II rotor here without the control box. Your more then welcome to have it. The control boxs are on ebay alot..

73's
W3BZ

 

[BARNEY'S CAR]

Tracy, Make your top guys 1/4 wave slopers and switch them with an Ameritron rcs8 box. You will kill two birds with one stone,you get the tower guyed and some directivity with gain on 80m. They are only about 66ft long as slopers and you can just finish off to the guy post after the insulator. Guy cable works great and gives aliitle more band width becauce it has more diameter then 14 guage wire. Cut them for the middle of the band and use the tuner in the radio. I worked over 200 countries on 80 (mostly cw on the bottom of the band) that way before I built the four square. It worked very well. Make sure you break up the lower guys or us philystrand(sp).I also have a 130ft insulated from ground verticial here for 160 with a triband verticial as a stinger and it has been hit twice....we love mother nature. Good luck with all the projects it never ends.

 

[BARNEY'S CAR]

Hi Joe, You will be amazed what you can work with 3 elements and 50w when the band opens. You will still work all over the country and even out of it at times if you are there at the right time during the opening.
As far as Tracy and I working on 6 it would take a nice aurora opening or some back scatter openings I think. I'm on the Il/Wi border and he is in central Il I think just to far apart for ground wave.
i'll keep watching here to keep up with everybodies projects, Good Luck to all '73 Bruce

 

[BARNEY'S CAR]

This is some tower work. I am tired just watching them

http://www.artifacting.com/blog/2010/09/15/climbing-a-1768-foot-transmission-tower/

 

[67Dart273]

This is some tower work. I am tired just watching them

http://www.artifacting.com/blog/2010/09/15/climbing-a-1768-foot-transmission-tower/

There is some REAL dangerous stuff going on there, particularly using a gorilla hook on a ladder peg. That's part of the reason I posted this link in my previous post above:

http://www.wirelessestimator.com/t_content.cfm?pagename=Tower Climber Lawsuit


For the record, towers are not "guided" or "gided" Towers are either "free standing" or "guyed." The cables (wire) that supports a "guyed" tower are "guys", not "guides."

 

[fishy68]

thanks fishy! I had the pleasure of meeting a working am radio chief engineer last monday on a job for a radio station. :glasses8: Talk about dumb luck! He showed me his contesting certificate from costa rica and he had something like 2,300,000 points. He also mentioned that he'll be in dayton for the next contest. I guess there's something like $15k in prizes. He also said to send him pics of my set up and he'll critique it for me plus he gave me the freqs of his repeaters, i guess he's got a whole bunch. he pointed out one on some huge tower out the 6th floor window of the radio station. :mrgreen: His call sign is n0zuo and he's a heck of nice guy and couldn't stop talking once i mentioned that i just got my tech license.

sounds like you guys had a good time.

sounds like your going to be getting out just fine once that tower is up and running!

yeah it should do ok. My old setup is pretty crude and it doesn't do bad for no higher than it is.

thanks bruce! Yeah, i guess if lightning can travel 2 miles down, my piddly set up is no gaurantee, lol! I just wanted to minimize damage and keep the house from blowing up. Disconnection will certainly be on the leaving for work list. I was looking at building a 3 element 6m, i'll let you know how it goes. As you know, antenna rotators are not cheap.... For decent one anyway. My transmittiter is only capable of 50w on 6m but climbs to 100w on hf, would that amount of power on 6m allow me to work some the u.s. Grid (east of the rockies) and maybe canada? Is it possible to talk to the west coast via skip?

the neat thing about 6 is you don't have to have anything elaborate to work stations way off when the band is open. With a decent opening and your locations height i bet you'll work guys all over on 50 watts.

getting a grid map is certainly on the list. Just curious, would it be possible for you and fishy to reach each other straight simplex on 6m if you pointed your beams right at each other?

like bruce said it would have to be some really good conditions for me and him to work on 6 although it has happened before as i've worked station close to him (en53 and 54). it'd probably be easier for me and you to work on 6 than him and i. I hear co. Quite often.

thanks again to everyone for all your input. Time for me to start laying some pvc while the sun is still out.

'73 kd0nts

73

 

[fishy68]

Tracy, Make your top guys 1/4 wave slopers and switch them with an Ameritron rcs8 box. You will kill two birds with one stone,you get the tower guyed and some directivity with gain on 80m. They are only about 66ft long as slopers and you can just finish off to the guy post after the insulator. Guy cable works great and gives aliitle more band width becauce it has more diameter then 14 guage wire. Cut them for the middle of the band and use the tuner in the radio. I worked over 200 countries on 80 (mostly cw on the bottom of the band) that way before I built the four square. It worked very well. Make sure you break up the lower guys or us philystrand(sp).I also have a 130ft insulated from ground verticial here for 160 with a triband verticial as a stinger and it has been hit twice....we love mother nature. Good luck with all the projects it never ends.

Bruce so it doesn't get confusing I'm gong to PM you for the continuation of this.

 

[67Dart273]

This is some tower work. I am tired just watching them

http://www.artifacting.com/blog/2010/09/15/climbing-a-1768-foot-transmission-tower/

Many mistakes going on here

First, here we are hooking a gorilla hook onto a footpeg. Not only can the hook easily come off, but if something breaks, like the peg, you are done, and while hooking up, he's only holding on with one hand. One slip..........

Below, with lanyard hooked to a peg, we are "relaxing" and scratching our *** with no hands on the tower

Below, we are hooking/ unhooking with one hand supporting EVERYTHING, so any hardware breakage or a slip of the hand, gust of wind, ever been hit by a bird at this height?

Below, we have climbed clear to the top, are not hooked up, and are basically hanging on to ......nothing

Last, below, we have several errors. We are clear to the top, although I know not why---working on the lamp you should be lower. He's installing a 'beaner to hook his gorilla to, so he's not hooked up and is holding onto NOTHING, meanwhile, his partner, jiggling the mast, etc, is also climbing up.

These two are both hooked to a fairly small top mast, which could be severly corroded internally and ready to break. In my opinion, this hookup is unsafe on the face of it.

 

[ramcharger]

If you are looking for a rotor I have a Ham II rotor here without the control box. Your more then welcome to have it. The control boxs are on ebay alot..

73's
W3BZ

Seriously? I am very interested! PM me!

Hi Joe, You will be amazed what you can work with 3 elements and 50w when the band opens. You will still work all over the country and even out of it at times if you are there at the right time during the opening.
As far as Tracy and I working on 6 it would take a nice aurora opening or some back scatter openings I think. I'm on the Il/Wi border and he is in central Il I think just to far apart for ground wave.
i'll keep watching here to keep up with everybodies projects, Good Luck to all '73 Bruce

Thanks for the info Bruce!

This is some tower work. I am tired just watching them

http://www.artifacting.com/blog/2010/09/15/climbing-a-1768-foot-transmission-tower/

That's insane, I could never do that. Ever.

Many mistakes going on here

First, here we are hooking a gorilla hook onto a footpeg. Not only can the hook easily come off, but if something breaks, like the peg, you are done, and while hooking up, he's only holding on with one hand. One slip..........

Below, with lanyard hooked to a peg, we are "relaxing" and scratching our *** with no hands on the tower

Below, we are hooking/ unhooking with one hand supporting EVERYTHING, so any hardware breakage or a slip of the hand, gust of wind, ever been hit by a bird at this height?

Below, we have climbed clear to the top, are not hooked up, and are basically hanging on to ......nothing

Last, below, we have several errors. We are clear to the top, although I know not why---working on the lamp you should be lower. He's installing a 'beaner to hook his gorilla to, so he's not hooked up and is holding onto NOTHING, meanwhile, his partner, jiggling the mast, etc, is also climbing up.

These two are both hooked to a fairly small top mast, which could be severly corroded internally and ready to break. In my opinion, this hookup is unsafe on the face of it.

More insanity. I'm not much for heights at all. As a matter of fact, my two buds had to hoist up my mast. The pitch of my roof freaked me out and I couldn't make the transition from ladder to roof. They gave me some hell for it too. :mrgreen:

PVC piping and brick drilling is done but I'm going to wait until the cement cures before I cover it all up. Plus I'm beat, what a day. Pictures to come!

 

[fishy68]

Many mistakes going on here

First, here we are hooking a gorilla hook onto a footpeg. Not only can the hook easily come off, but if something breaks, like the peg, you are done, and while hooking up, he's only holding on with one hand. One slip..........

Below, with lanyard hooked to a peg, we are "relaxing" and scratching our *** with no hands on the tower

Below, we are hooking/ unhooking with one hand supporting EVERYTHING, so any hardware breakage or a slip of the hand, gust of wind, ever been hit by a bird at this height?

Below, we have climbed clear to the top, are not hooked up, and are basically hanging on to ......nothing

Last, below, we have several errors. We are clear to the top, although I know not why---working on the lamp you should be lower. He's installing a 'beaner to hook his gorilla to, so he's not hooked up and is holding onto NOTHING, meanwhile, his partner, jiggling the mast, etc, is also climbing up.

These two are both hooked to a fairly small top mast, which could be severly corroded internally and ready to break. In my opinion, this hookup is unsafe on the face of it.

That's just nuts. I can't understand some people's "It can never happen to me" thinking. I use my climbing belt (properly) even if I only climb 10-15 feet up the tower.

 

[ramcharger]

Fishy,

Pretty cool that you can hear Colorado on ocassion. Once I get on 6m, we'll have to give that a shot when conditions are right.

OK, here's some pics.

#1. Drilled out the brick by drawing a 1 1/2" circle and drilling all the way around the outer edge with a 1/4" bit then a 3/8" bit an knocked the hole out. It came out pretty nice really. I sealed the pvc going through the brick with "The Right Stuff". I love that stuff.

#2 Span to the house. I'll fill this in tomorrow night after the PVC cement dries.

#3 This is a slip fitting that is o-ring sealed. It makes installation on that last peice of pipe way easier and I can drop it down to facilitate cable pulling. It's not cemented in at the top. Once I get the cables pulled I'll just seal the very top piece in with a little clear silicone so i can break the seal in the future if need be.

#4 Here's that top piece I was just talking about. I'll also sillycone the holes for the cables when all is said and done. Looks like I have some cable pulling to do tomorrow.

 

[fishy68]

Looking good Joe. When do you expect to have your 6 meter beam up?

 

[ramcharger]

Looking good Joe. When do you expect to have your 6 meter beam up?

It'll pobably be awhile. After I get up on 2m/70cm I need to complete the motorcycle (2 days work), get the pop-up camper painted (camo paint job, should go quick) and start on the Duster. Honestly I'm thinking probably not until fall or spring. I gather that the band opens in the summer though, is this the case?

Man, I'm tired. I gotta get to bed and go to work so I can afford all my hobbies. :mrgreen:

 

[camd64]

After watching that video all I can say is "HELL NO!!!" I hated having to get up to my second story to reseal my windows!

 

[fishy68]

It'll pobably be awhile. After I get up on 2m/70cm I need to complete the motorcycle (2 days work), get the pop-up camper painted (camo paint job, should go quick) and start on the Duster. Honestly I'm thinking probably not until fall or spring. I gather that the band opens in the summer though, is this the case?

Man, I'm tired. I gotta get to bed and go to work so I can afford all my hobbies. :mrgreen:

Ok. I know how it is when you have more than one hobby. Gotta spread the butter a little thinner.

Go get some rest. I'm about to do the same.

Openings on 6 can happen any time but the summer time is your best chance.

 

[ramcharger]

WOO HOO! Made my first contact on 2 meters tonight.

I had just completed my antenna system, played with my radio and got it programmed then sent out out a call on the 2m simplex national call freq and immediatley got a response. It kinda suprised me and I didn't get the guys call sign right away but shoot, we rag chewed for about 30 minutes. He said I was pegging the crap out of his S meter on simplex at 20 miles away. I gotta figure out how to quickly drop power on this unit. He also said that he's in a hole (in a valley and behind some buildings and trees) and never gets calls in the red on simplex. he couldn't believe I was running 50W and thought I had a linear or a beam pointed right at him.

It's working! Woo Hoo! Plan on reading the manual on this thing more tonight and shooting out some more calls tomorrow on 70cm and 2m. I gotta tell you all that this antenna set-up was really hard work. Ditch is all filled in, cables are run and secure, everything is grounded and tight.

 

[BARNEY'S CAR]

Concrats Joe, Now your hooked and it's just money from now on......Keep studing for that General lic.You will find it's even more fun working the world then the guy 20m away and make some friends you will talk to for life. Have fun. '73 Bruce