Been a painter & body man for some time. Wouldn't mind trying PPGs water base primers ect. Anyone out there that has tried any water base paints ? I want to stick with the PPG products. PPG is what I am use to using. Used it for many years.
ANY PAINTERS USE WATER BASE
- Thread starter cawley
- Start date
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straightlinespeed
Sometimes I pretend to be normal
I have not personally used it, but I work in a College and our autobody program is switching to it. I have not heard anything bad about it, other than the paint booth we have was not designed for it. So they are looking to upgrade the paint booth. I have no idea whats different with it that they would have to buy a new booth.
You have to have a booth set up for water base paint. I have been out of the trade for a while but I would be really dubious of using a water based primer.
In fact, that is the first time I have ever heard of a water base primer. Water base, base coats are pretty much the norm in most parts of Ca.
They still use a solvent based clear. Some times different paint manufacturers want one to use all their primers, sealers, base and clear coats
in order to warranty their products if there is a paint problem. I think they just want you to spend more money for their products, especially primers.
I used PPGs water base enviro base for a few years. It's much different than you're used to with solvent base coats. When you look at the difference of water base and solvent you will see drastic differences on how to spray water vs solvent and even water vs water with different manufacturers.
I think you will find some painters that love it, and some that hate it. I wasn't a fan of it. When switching to PPG water from solvent I was able to "test" many different brands and they all spray, respond, and take different application techniques.
With Eviro Base you will need to make additions to your booth, and equipment but most of it is a selling opportunity for jobbers. You will need high flow fittings for your guns, and a regulator IN the booth you can adjust. Many painters use a gun regulator and with a high flow fitting and "main line" pressure it makes absolutely no sense to choke a gun regulator all the way closed to get your spraying pressure. Guns are designed to have that volume at the gun fully open. You will at minimum need some blowers to shear the water out of the paint. Hand held units work ok. Some will incorporate a ramp up of booth temperature after application.
With Enviro base you will find you want very thin coats otherwise you will never get it to flash the water and you will find major pinching after a bake cycle is complete. Also if you are a "spray to coverage" painter an old school thought I have always believed in you will need to retrain your thinking and "spray to match"... and this is defined by me as spraying a transparent coat to match the factory minimal coverage. This will include making a spray out for every car you paint and it will get trickier once you understand their "drop coat" technique.
Enviro base suggests that on all metallic colors you do a drop coat after you are done spraying 2-3 coats. This drop coat is at 17 psi and is for metallic orientation. One thing they won't tell you is it can DRASTICALLY change the color by doing this too light, too heavy or in some technique that you choose... To me there were TONS of variables that affected color match. You can basically make a let down panel with this drop coat and watch how much it changes the color.
The toners are "suspended" and you do not have to agitate them. You give a quick shake and pour. Also all the pearls are liquid. You will also need special "rubber" stir sticks that you use to mix the product as you cannot shake it. It is also a good idea to have a Din 4 cup.
If you live in an area with high humidity you will not enjoy water base as it has no where to force the water when trying to flash it. It can slow the process down drastically. I don't believe that the product is faster than solvent in any condition no matter what PPG or a jobber will tell you. They also had a DTM water based surface primer I tried. This is supposed to flash instantly and be ready to sand. I used it once with a jobber and watched water based primer fish eye... It was almost comical to watch him explain how it was even scientifically possible to happen. I found that with technology the UV primers are much faster for spot repairs but I do not like them on plastic repairs.
I think you will find some painters that love it, and some that hate it. I wasn't a fan of it. When switching to PPG water from solvent I was able to "test" many different brands and they all spray, respond, and take different application techniques.
With Eviro Base you will need to make additions to your booth, and equipment but most of it is a selling opportunity for jobbers. You will need high flow fittings for your guns, and a regulator IN the booth you can adjust. Many painters use a gun regulator and with a high flow fitting and "main line" pressure it makes absolutely no sense to choke a gun regulator all the way closed to get your spraying pressure. Guns are designed to have that volume at the gun fully open. You will at minimum need some blowers to shear the water out of the paint. Hand held units work ok. Some will incorporate a ramp up of booth temperature after application.
With Enviro base you will find you want very thin coats otherwise you will never get it to flash the water and you will find major pinching after a bake cycle is complete. Also if you are a "spray to coverage" painter an old school thought I have always believed in you will need to retrain your thinking and "spray to match"... and this is defined by me as spraying a transparent coat to match the factory minimal coverage. This will include making a spray out for every car you paint and it will get trickier once you understand their "drop coat" technique.
Enviro base suggests that on all metallic colors you do a drop coat after you are done spraying 2-3 coats. This drop coat is at 17 psi and is for metallic orientation. One thing they won't tell you is it can DRASTICALLY change the color by doing this too light, too heavy or in some technique that you choose... To me there were TONS of variables that affected color match. You can basically make a let down panel with this drop coat and watch how much it changes the color.
The toners are "suspended" and you do not have to agitate them. You give a quick shake and pour. Also all the pearls are liquid. You will also need special "rubber" stir sticks that you use to mix the product as you cannot shake it. It is also a good idea to have a Din 4 cup.
If you live in an area with high humidity you will not enjoy water base as it has no where to force the water when trying to flash it. It can slow the process down drastically. I don't believe that the product is faster than solvent in any condition no matter what PPG or a jobber will tell you. They also had a DTM water based surface primer I tried. This is supposed to flash instantly and be ready to sand. I used it once with a jobber and watched water based primer fish eye... It was almost comical to watch him explain how it was even scientifically possible to happen. I found that with technology the UV primers are much faster for spot repairs but I do not like them on plastic repairs.
i owned and ran a body shop for 4 years 1972-76 and was the main painter. i have a collection of barracudas and painted one of them a couple of years ago. i used old time acrylic lacquer that i found at TCP Global in San Diego, CA. i don't know if they still sell lacquer and enamel paint any longer. i tried using a water based spray can (i.e. rattle can) to paint some valve covers last year. it was a NIGHTMARE! i had never painted with water based paint and sprayed the covers. they were "wet" for 3 hours. i put floor lights on them and they were still too sticky to handle for 24 hours and didn't cure completely for 3 days! then i talked to a current body shop guy and he told me you have to use floor fans when painting with water based paint. he said there has to be strong air-flow for that paint to dry and cure. so i'm pretty sure you'll need a complete paint booth set up for water paint with fans and heat lamps to spray anything. i painted my 68 Barracuda a panel at a time in my two garage with the lacquer paint i got from TCP Global. in my humble opinion, car painting and body shop repair has gone to hell just like so many other things in this country. i used to laugh when guys told me a minimum paint job is now $10k. i totally believe it now. it's a shame.
It dries with air movement not just heat. You have to have a certain amount of air movement.
It is also done with a shearing air. You don't apply air directly towards it but more on an angle and this pulls the water out. The reduction is far less than solvant in the area of 10% depending on color and humidity. This is why a din cup is necessary.
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