Anyone ever done dyno check Holley vs. Edelbrock?

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swinger340

swinger340

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Been seeing a lot of carb related threads lately. I know I have always seen and felt a considerable performance gain when swapping from Edelbrock to a Holley. Just curious if any one has actually checked the gains on a dyno. Say a 600 eddy vs 650 Holley or something of that sort?
 
I dunno but I've always liked the Carter AFB 625 more than the Eddy 600, now that Carter is pretty much part of Edelbrock now, I'm not sure about the performer.

I have 3 Carter AFB's that I've accumulated over the years including one I bought in 1998 and I've rebuilt the other two.

I did have one Holley before but I had problems tuning it, eventually I sold it as I lost patience with it.

Someone suggested going to a reputable Thermoquad rebuilder, which is very tempting...

I've been hearing a lot of buzz about the Street Demon's. Dunno, will do more research on it.
 
The Carter style carbs are my favorite,(Same as Edelbrock,Weber,Now Magneti Marelli is making them for Edelbrock). I don't have anything to back this up but it is said that a "Holley will always make more HP that the Carter".Maybe some of the magazines arcives ? I think the Carter makes a great street carb.Never had much luck with the Holley. My 2 cents.
 
Not a direct comparison, but i had a pretty stout 360 in my old cuda that ran high 12's. I had spent quite a bit of time tuning the Holley 750 DP. I sold the car and when I saw the new owner at the track he proceeded to tell me what a POS the Holley was and how he had fixed it by installing a Carter. I watched his next run, and he fixed it all right. He ran 3 tenths slower.
 

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The Carters are known for the rock solid and staying in a state of tune with excellent street performance, low and mid range torque. Not top end HP like a Holley. The air entrance is an issue *I think*.

When people say Holley over a Carter, well, that is there choice but I have noticed they'll move away from a standard Holley like a (OE) 4160 and move right to a Jr. Race carb or high dollar race carb and look at you stupidly like it is a stock carb off of an an old ride.

I just find it amazing that some people will throw away a good Carter in favor of a $700+ dollar Holley and be happy with a tenth or two on a 99% street car. Then be snide and gloat and top it off by looking down at you for not spending the money on making the most HP possible with a high dollar carb. Really?!?! 5 whole HP for a mere $700+!?!? Really!?!?!?

The Holley is way more tune-able and flexible with tons of parts to make it that way. And you'll spend more and more on Holley's parts to make it a super great carb. With Carters, it is impossible to spend but a few bucks because there just not out there and no demand for it. There preetttyyy damn good for a OE carb.

Pound for pound, the "OE" carb that cam on what ever car is IMO better than the Holley OE carb. for everyday use-age and performance.

Tricking out a Carter is a limited thing. You can only do so much with them.

I have not seen a direct compare between the two manufacturers on equal cfm rated units.
 
Darter6 said:
The Carter style carbs are my favorite,(Same as Edelbrock,Weber,Now Magneti Marelli is making them for Edelbrock). I don't have anything to back this up but it is said that a "Holley will always make more HP that the Carter".Maybe some of the magazines arcives ? I think the Carter makes a great street carb.Never had much luck with the Holley. My 2 cents.
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I agree 100% For a reliable street cruiser I would choose a carter as well. Im forever tinkering w my Holley carbs, but I don't mind because of the added throttle response. Not sure what the actual gains are. Probably realistically not a lot, 5ish HP maybe?
 
WHen I had the old 360 in the wifes duster it ran consistant 13.70's with a tuned eddy 750 (1407) Couldn't get it to go any faster.
The next week I swapped on a Holley 650 DP (4777) and dropped down to a 13.52. With squirter, pump cam, and jet changes we got faster.

The bottom line is what do you expect to do with the car? Are you racing and want to tune every last hundredth of a second out of it or do you just want a cruiser? If it's a cruiser I'd go no more than a 600 eddy, They are a great carb but prone to heat soak.
 
YES! A thick base gasket required! Good mention my man!
That may also be the size of the carb problem. If it were 750 to 750, you'd have something there.
 
swinger340 said:
I agree 100% For a reliable street cruiser I would choose a carter as well. Im forever tinkering w my Holley carbs, but I don't mind because of the added throttle response. Not sure what the actual gains are. Probably realistically not a lot, 5ish HP maybe?
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Im wondering now. I got a edelbrock thunder series 650 thats good for a street car right i mean im not against holleys i just hear theyre are a constant thing to mess with or tune
 
71DodgeDemon340 said:
Im wondering now. I got a edelbrock thunder series 650 thats good for a street car right i mean im not against holleys i just hear theyre are a constant thing to mess with or tune
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I have heard good things about thunder series. I have never owned one. I would say for a street car that is all you need, i wouldn't change a thing.
 
Ok cool i mean throttle response is there just feels like theres a hesitation there when im driving her. Some times more than others could have to do with fuel quality too. Edelbrocks are a lot less hassle than holleys right? I mean how often do you actually have to adjust them cause the only thing ive had to do on the edelbrock is adjust my idle in 3 years lol and change the fuel filter of course
 
Holleys are a little more tempermental (sp?) but that also depends on what Holley you are dealing with. A standard 4160-4150 is just fine. When you go up the scale and/or add I. Racing tunes that change a few time during the day, well, there ya have it.

The TQ question ....

The TQ was first seen on favtory race rides in as early as '68 (IIRC)
There a born race carb. As far as there performance on the street, there my favorite. Excellent throttle response with the small primary, excellent W.O.T. Acceleration.

Getting a good one is key. Except the first year, the earlier the better. Like all Carter's before them, they only can be tuned so much. They stay in tune. Jet it, set it, forget it.
They are a little tricky to learn because they are a bit different. Once you get it, your likely to never go back to another. There in expensive to purchase and rebuild.

Parts however for tuning are hard to find. Use AFB/AVS rods bent 3/4 of an inch shorter and clip.
 
Holley and Carter/Eddie are similar designs in the sense of how they overcome the inherent design issues related with a plain tube Carburetor.

As airflow increases with rpm the fuel delivery increases at a faster rate which means the carb will have tendency to become richer.

One way to overcome this problem is to introduce air into the system (air bleeding) to lean it out to maintain a steady AFR. So emulsion was born. Both Holley and Carter afb's use emulsion to overcome this problem.

Holley and Carter both use emulsion but they also do it differently. Carter uses a tube style which allows an infinite amount of options of bleeding arrangement and emulsion where as Holley gives you 5 possible locations. In my view the tube design is far superior to the Holley design. Weber also use the tubular emulsion design.

Carter Thermoquads (Quadrajet also)are a different animal all together . They don't use emulsion to overcome the issue with different flow rates instead they use the internal passage sizing to restrict the flow to control afrs Thermoquads are deemed to be solid fuel metering carbs. Whats easier changing air bleeds or sizing internal passages to accomplish the required afr? OEMs have the time and resources to do the solid fuel metering.

Its my understanding that solid fuel metering carbs provide a more consistent afr spread between cylinders because air does not interrupt the fuel flow exiting the booster. Also the triple booster venturi design aids atomisation. A win win!

I Hope this answers some questions about the differing designs

Hysteric
 
Nice reply. Good description.

Note, aftermarket Holley carbs can have metering blocks with many air bleeds.
The first year of the TQ tuning parts are super hard to come by.

I also agree on the TQ's primary booster being a really good thing. Very responsive.
Due take note to which one you may pick up. The small TQ, defined by the smaller primary size of 1-3/8th vs the large TQ that has a 1.50. Use the smaller TQ on 318's. The 340 can use either one if stock. But if you start to modify the 340, step up to the larger one.

There is an electric choke TQ. They have the 1-3/8 and a verity of arms. Chevy, MoPar ....
There is also a monster size TQ rated at 1,000 CFM. I don't know if that is accurate, but it only has one booster ring and it is not a solid fuel carb.
 
Note, aftermarket Holley carbs can have metering blocks with many air bleeds.
The first year of the TQ tuning parts are super hard to come by.
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Even the after market metering blocks are limited to 5 in most cases for the 4150 carbs. BLP and others do make more but they are for specialized set ups mainly high end dominator style carbs.

My understanding of the earlier TQ carbs was that they were actually an emulsion design.

Hysteric
 
Good article but where's the AVS/Thunder?

They have three Holleys, and two more Holley derivatives, but only one Carter/Eddy when there is another just as easily available?

Perhaps it didn't meet the $299 price point, but I see them at swaps for $100.
 
I think this was writen before the Edel. AVS came out.
The AVS will perform better with the adjustable secondary air door.
This write just proves what I have always preached. Just get the carb your most comfy with and tune it up, then enjoy. I like the AVS best out of the squarebore carbs.
 
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