Axel-Flip questions

[Corrupt_Reverend]

Hi folks, it's been a while.

So I've finally dusted off the '72 and started working on it again after nearly a decade.

Got it running and driving the other week and now I'm hashing out the plan for suspension.

This is going to be a wasteland weekend car (if you're not familiar, think mad Max), and I want an obscene amount of rake to make room for some big off-road rubber in the rear.

I'm thinking the easiest route to achieve the stance I'm after is an axel flip, but there is precious little information on doing this to an a-body.

My main concern is with the drive line angle. I just don't know if an axel flip will cause me issues here.

So, does anyone here have experience doing this? I'm especially interested to see pictures as well.

Thoughts? I know handling will suck, but I'm not going to be tracking or canyon carving in this thing. Just an easy 3 hour freeway drive once a year followed by putzing around on gravel roads at 5mph for a few days.

 

[TT5.9mag]

It’s relatively simple really. Cut off the perches, flip the springs to the other side of the axle, weld on new perches. But, you have to get the pinion angle correct at the new ride hight.

 

[Corrupt_Reverend]

It’s relatively simple really. Cut off the perches, flip the springs to the other side of the axle, weld on new perches. But, you have to get the pinion angle correct at the new ride hight.

Yeah, I'm not worried about moving the spring perches, that's pretty straightforward. But I'm a bit clueless on setting the pinion angle.

 

[413]

5mph on on gravel roads. Why does it need to be so high? How are you going to get the fron to match?

Just get some air shocks and raise it up when you arrive to the dirt.

 

[72bluNblu]

The axle tube is 3” so an axle flip will raise the car about 3.5” or so.

From a pinion angle standpoint it’s definitely no worse than putting a lift kit on a truck. You’ll want to get that dialed before you weld the perches on.

It will absolutely ruin your caster settings though, and that will make the car drive like a shopping cart for that time on the freeway. It will not be fun. But the factory UCA’s won’t have enough adjustment to get that caster back. And even offset bushings in the UCA’s probably won’t be enough.

 

[Kendog 170]

I think you could leave the old perches and just weld the new ones one with correct angle.

 

[Corrupt_Reverend]

5mph on on gravel roads. Why does it need to be so high? How are you going to get the fron to match?

Just get some air shocks and raise it up when you arrive to the dirt.

It's purely aesthetic. 5mph is the "speed limit" for wasteland weekend since there are tons of people walking around.

I don't think air shocks will give me the height I'm after.

Front will remain low. Want it raked.

 

[Dana67Dart]

IMHO running and diff upside down from its designed orientation is not a good idea


I have seen an add on perch like this, no welding involved. would get you about 3.5" PLUS the thickness of the spring pack.

This image is for lowering but would work in reverse as well

THAT BEING SAID...

As previously noted the pinion angle would be all wrong, and if an 8 3/4, the housing is not very stout (7 1/4 would be stouter)


It sits on and in the lower perch and the U bolts hold it to the axle housing. you would need upper and or lower mounts to do this.

 

[ProjectBazza]

It's purely aesthetic. 5mph is the "speed limit" for wasteland weekend since there are tons of people walking around.

I don't think air shocks will give me the height I'm after.

Front will remain low. Want it raked.

Just go "old school" and install some air shocks and long-*** shackles.

Most of the people here will hate it, but it's you car, and as the saying goes, "you do you".

 

[33IMP]

Gasser straight front axle kit.

 

[Dana67Dart]

you could also make some plates to extend the front and rear hangers

 

[72bluNblu]

IMHO running and diff upside down from its designed orientation is not a good idea


I have seen an add on perch like this, no welding involved. would get you about 3.5" PLUS the thickness of the spring pack.

This image is for lowering but would work in reverse as well
View attachment 1716466869
THAT BEING SAID...

As previously noted the pinion angle would be all wrong, and if an 8 3/4, the housing is not very stout (7 1/4 would be stouter)


It sits on and in the lower perch and the U bolts hold it to the axle housing. you would need upper and or lower mounts to do this.

The diff won’t be upside down. You just put the perches on the tops of the tubes. It’s not any different than most truck rear axles that are configured the same way.

 

[Cranky]

I did air shocks on a 67 Coronet years ago and got the back end pretty high up....the shocks were all the way extended and then lowered the front end almost all the way down. Now if you do the flip and then air shock it....that's another story!

 

[Professor Fate]

The diff won’t be upside down. You just put the perches on the top of the tubes. It’s not any different than most truck rear axles that are configured the same way.

Fixed it for ya!

 

[Kern Dog]

I did this 3 weeks ago just for fun.

I didn't weld anything, I just cut the perches off and put them on top of the axle, bolted it back up and took pictures.

SUPER rake.

Now with the torsion bar screws maxxed out:

It looks silly but hey...I just was messing around for fun. I never measured anything but it is more than 3 inches taller. When doing a FLIP, you add the thickness of the spring pack to the diameter of the axle to get the total amount of difference in height.
Most 1/2 ton trucks with a flip kit are in the 6 inch range. This looks at least 5 inches higher in back.

 

[Cranky]

I did this 3 weeks ago just for fun.

View attachment 1716466884

View attachment 1716466885

View attachment 1716466886

I didn't weld anything, I just cut the perches off and put them on top of the axle, bolted it back up and took pictures.

View attachment 1716466887

SUPER rake.

View attachment 1716466888

Now with the torsion bar screws maxxed out:

View attachment 1716466889

It looks silly but hey...I just was messing around for fun. I never measured anything but it is more than 3 inches taller. When doing a FLIP, you add the thickness of the spring pack to the diameter of the axle to get the total amount of difference in height.
Most 1/2 ton trucks with a flip kit are in the 6 inch range. This looks at least 5 inches higher in back.

Air shocks will do pretty much the same thing....and much easier.

 

[Kern Dog]

The leaf spring/shock plates had to be switched. Left side to the right, right side to the left. This is because they are now mounted upside down so the shock stud needs to be to the inside of the spring. This puts the shock at an extreme angle. It isn't ideal. If one were to care enough, a dropped down shock mount would be much better.

I did this same thing 28 years ago to a 73 Swinger...
Before:

After.

 

[Cranky]

The leaf spring/shock plates had to be switched. Left side to the right, right side to the left. This is because they are now mounted upside down so the shock stud needs to be to the inside of the spring. This puts the shock at an extreme angle. It isn't ideal. If one were to care enough, a dropped down shock mount would be much better.

I did this same thing 28 years ago to a 73 Swinger...
Before:

View attachment 1716466896

After.

View attachment 1716466894

Were you offroading it?

 

[Kern Dog]

Ha...
No. Then, just like now...I like to mess around with this stuff just to see how it looks, how it performs and such.
I was just having fun. That green Dart just got a flip with some home made brackets. My brother owned the car, I did this when he wasn't at the house.
He came home and dang near busted a gut laughing at it.
Later he was out driving it and one of the brackets shifted and the axle was moving around. He told me he was in a parking lot for hours reversing the flip to put it back to stock, then he lowered the front to below stock. He kept tools in the trunk but no jack stands. Imagine doing the flip reversal with just a floor jack!
It only looked like this for a few days.

 

[toolmanmike]

Air shocks and crank up the torsion bars. Oh ya, you wanted a rake.

 

[Kern Dog]

I agree, the air shock route would be easier but I'm told the upper shock supports are not too beefy. The ride gets real stiff with enough air to lift the car this high. The axle flip is obnoxious but the ride stays similar since the spring rate is unchanged. The white Dart Lite had a 7 1/4" axle that I pulled out and sold. I stuffed a 2.76 axle back in just to keep the car a roller. The 2.76 had the differential in pieces inside so I figured just to mess around with it by relocating the perches to the top. I have no idea of the pinion angle. There are no plans to build this car so this was all just me playing around.
I've read that for a reasonably fast street car, you want between 2 to 4 degrees nose DOWN. I can't see that working well on a lifted vehicle. Can you imagine the bind the U joints would be in with the pinion pointing down? I've read that you want a difference between the front u joint to rear u joint to be within 2 degrees of each other.
U joint angles and driveshaft speeds are an interesting thing. Check out this video I saw on a drag racing site:



It is interesting to me anyway.

 

[Cranky]

Ha...
No. Then, just like now...I like to mess around with this stuff just to see how it looks, how it performs and such.
I was just having fun. That green Dart just got a flip with some home made brackets. My brother owned the car, I did this when he wasn't at the house.
He came home and dang near busted a gut laughing at it.
Later he was out driving it and one of the brackets shifted and the axle was moving around. He told me he was in a parking lot for hours reversing the flip to put it back to stock, then he lowered the front to below stock. He kept tools in the trunk but no jack stands. Imagine doing the flip reversal with just a floor jack!
It only looked like this for a few days.

Yeah, I used to do that kind of stuff too. Talk about a bad driving car with the rear all the way up and the front all the way down lol

 

[Kern Dog]

I had a 73 Duster that I enjoyed driving in dirt and mud...

It was really twitchy with the front end up this high. I learned why many years later when I saw how our cars alignment changes during the range of suspension travel. The higher the front is, the LESS caster you have. It goes negative just above stock ride height. Negative caster steers easier but will wander and drift around a LOT.

 

[Cranky]

Hi folks, it's been a while.

What ya been up to for the last nearly 10 years lol

 

[Corrupt_Reverend]

What ya been up to for the last nearly 10 years lol

Oh, you know. This'n'that. Haha

The dart was my daily for a long time. Then it just ended up getting parked in a field when I got a different car. Wasn't really sure what I wanted to do with it until I went to wasteland recently and saw all the crazy cars there. Figured it's a good use for a '72 sedan.