Bands may be slipping? Help please

[rick1062]

1965 Barracuda, 273, 904 auto. Was parked for about 5 years and just got it running again. I think something feels funny with the trans:

New trans oil and filter.

When accelerating, especially when going from zero up to about 40mph, it feels like it shutters. The car shakes a bit, but if I let off the throttle and ease into it, there is much less or no shutter. Feels like a trans issue, but not sure. Any ideas?


Thanks for your input,

Rick

 

[thesiren74]

U-joint?

 

[KickDown]

Rick.
Check the engine & transmission mounts. If the trans mount has been covered in oil from a previous engine or trans leak, they deteriorate rapidly.
Cheers. Gaz

 

[rick1062]

Rick.
Check the engine & transmission mounts. If the trans mount has been covered in oil from a previous engine or trans leak, they deteriorate rapidly.
Cheers. Gaz

Thanks KickDown. Sounds possible.

Your username reminds me, we are missing the kick down linkage from the carb linkage. If anyone has what I need please let me know.

Rick

 

[Woods74]

That's why, the transmission HAS TO HAVE that kickdown rod or cable, it has to do with the line pressure to power ratio, it will live a short life without it, ask me how I know...

Don't drive on it till you get it installed and adjusted properly.

 

[rick1062]

" My advice: don't build for a number. Build a car to do what you want it to do. Building for a number becomes a constant source of solving one problem and creating two more. " - Husky44


Sorry but I don't get it. What does this mean?

Rick

 

[Woods74]

Engine building, 98 point restorations, keeping up with the Jones'; in other words huge expectations take the fun out of it

 

[fishy68]

" My advice: don't build for a number. Build a car to do what you want it to do. Building for a number becomes a constant source of solving one problem and creating two more. " - Husky44


Sorry but I don't get it. What does this mean?

Rick

Your reading his signature line. You'll see all kinds of stuff in signature lines that has nothing to do with the response he gave you on the transmission. Read the part at the top, above the signature line.

As for the transmission problem. When you serviced it did you check the fluid in neutral? If you checked it in park it's way low on transmission fluid cause Chrysler's dump fluid back into the pan in park, you have to check them in neutral to get a correct reading. And as PoisonDart pointed out you absolutely have to have the throttle pressure linkage (what your calling the kickdown linkage) hooked up and adjusted properly or you'll fry the trans in short order. What you described is clutch plate chatter. No band (front or rear) affects take off to much extent. Clutch plate chatter is either low fluid, dried out seals, or worn out clutch plates. If it was driven very much at all without the throttle pressure linkage hooked up the trans is most likely toasted

 

[KickDown]

Thanks KickDown. Sounds possible.

Your username reminds me, we are missing the kick down linkage from the carb linkage. If anyone has what I need please let me know.

Rick

Damn! Now that is bad news Rick. Correctly named it's the throttle pressure linkage, which allows the pressure applying the clutches & bands to increase in proportion with engine load demands.
Like all before me have said, if you run your trans without the TPL you will toast it in a very short time.
Let's hope as Tracey suggested, it wasn't driven long without the TPL before it's 5 year rest period.

With my first suggestion I was just trying to keep things simple to start off, without diving directly into the trans for the source of the problem. Now that you have stated that the TPL is missing, it might be more serious.
Cheers. Gaz

 

[rick1062]

Damn! Now that is bad news Rick. If you run your trans without the TPL you will toast it in a very short time.

Ok, I am am getting the message that I need to get the missing throttle pressure linkage. It looks like I have the lower part from the trans back up to a pivot near the bottom of the firewall. But, I am missing everything above that. So the big question, where can I get this stuff? I took a quick look on ebay and saw some linkage, but not for a 1965. I also saw some cable linkage, which I am guessing is a modern conversion. What do you all suggest, cable or origanal? And where is the best place to get what I need without breaking the bank?

The current plans for the car is to be a daily driver, mostly locally.


You guys are awesome, thanks so much for your help on this,

Rick

 

[jdsduster]

if you cant find what you need,you could always use the kickdown cable that is available.

 

[TrailBeast]

If the fluid is still nice and red (doubt it is if it's shuddering or has) you may have gotten lucky.
If it's dark red or brown the friction materials and plates will need replaced.
AKA soft parts overhaul.

You won't really know until you get that linkage connected and see how it does.
Or if the fluid is discolored enough to determin that.
If it's darker than new fluid, it should be redone, because once they slip even for a short while it cooks and hardens the friction material on the cluctches and it'll slip way easier after this happens.

Hope you got lucky.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Or, You can wire the KD/TPL rearward, as far as it will go, and retest.

 

[rick1062]

Or, You can wire the KD/TPL back as far as it will go, and retest.

Just to be clear, which way would be wired back?

If it works better after wiring back, is it ok to leave it that way for a while and just drive it?

On mine, there is a rod that comes from the trans to a pivoting linkage at the bottom of the firewall. Everything from that pivoting linkage up toward the carb is missing. It would be great if I know which way to tie the rod coming toward the firewall and leave and drive it until I can find what I need. Or, will this still do more damage to trans?

Thanks,
Rick

 

[KickDown]

Rick.
You can try the following. The picture is of a 727 trans but the 904 is very similar.
You may find your shifts coming in late & hard, after wiring the lever back, but with the throttle pressure lever wired at the rearmost stop, the throttle pressure is at maximum.
I would give it a try to see if there is any change in your shudder. This is just for a trial & by no means a permanent remedy.
Get the rest of the TPL & hook it up earliest.
Maybe some transmission work is needed after all.



Cheers & a GR8 weekend. Gaz

 

[TrailBeast]

AJ is correct that it can be tied back, but it will act strange because the trans will think you are a wide open throttle all the time.
It won't hurt the trans, but it wont shift until the RPM's are pretty high and then when it does shift it will be a hard shift.
As long as you know it going to do this, it can be tested and driven this way.
You can tie it back 2/3 of the way also, and it will shift a little more normal but then it shouldn't be driven with more than about 2/3 throttle. (see the relationship there?)
Obviously it should be hooked up when you can get it done.

If the fluid still looks nice and bright red, it may be just fine and runnable.
Since you are missing those parts, you may consider a Lokar cable setup instead.
Or if we know exactly what your current setup is missing, there are people selling this stuff on here all the time.
You will need the parts specific to your combination. (Engine and carb type)

 

[rick1062]

Rick.
You can try the following. The picture is of a 727 trans but the 904 is very similar.
You may find your shifts coming in late & hard, after wiring the lever back, but with the throttle pressure lever wired at the rearmost stop, the throttle pressure is at maximum.
I would give it a try to see if there is any change in your shudder. This is just for a trial & by no means a permanent remedy.
Get the rest of the TPL & hook it up earliest.
Maybe some transmission work is needed after all.



Cheers & a GR8 weekend. Gaz

Thanks again to all of you. Great picture KickDown.
And, good information on how the linkage works TrailBeast.


I will look the car over today and take a picture or two so maybe you all can help me figure out what I need to get this working right.


Rick

 

[fishy68]

As for the transmission problem. When you serviced it did you check the fluid in neutral? If you checked it in park it's way low on transmission fluid cause Chrysler's dump fluid back into the pan in park, you have to check them in neutral to get a correct reading.

I never saw any reply to my question on whether or not you checked the fluid in neutral or park. I quoted it above. Low fluid level will cause it to shudder taking off

 

[rick1062]

I never saw any reply to my question on whether or not you checked the fluid in neutral or park. I quoted it above. Low fluid level will cause it to shudder taking off

Hey Fishy68,

Yes you are right. I didn't post an answer for you. Your question is a good one, and yes, I am checking the trans oil in neutral, on level ground, and warmed up. It is pretty wild how much the level will raise after setting a few days, then checking it before start up.

I haven't been to the car for a couple of days. Been a bit sick here. I am planning on getting there in the next couple of days to try tying the TPL back and seeing if I can feel a difference. Also want to take some pictures of the TPL setup so, with some help from you guys we can figure out what I need to make it right.

Thanks to all as usual,

Rick

 

[fishy68]

Hey Fishy68,

Yes you are right. I didn't post an answer for you. Your question is a good one, and yes, I am checking the trans oil in neutral, on level ground, and warmed up. It is pretty wild how much the level will raise after setting a few days, then checking it before start up.

I haven't been to the car for a couple of days. Been a bit sick here. I am planning on getting there in the next couple of days to try tying the TPL back and seeing if I can feel a difference. Also want to take some pictures of the TPL setup so, with some help from you guys we can figure out what I need to make it right.

Thanks to all as usual,

Rick

Ok. It's such a common mistake I always mention it. Hope your feeling better. I've been fighting bronchitis myself. Going on the 3rd week, ugh!

 

[Woods74]

Here you go bro:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY9WTWayCC8"]1971 Volume 71-2 Shift Quality and Linkage Adjustment - YouTube[/ame]

 

[d55dave]

Great info here, absolutely get that kickdown linkage back on it. Note though that '65 and prior vintage transmissions are cable shift, so it will look slightly different than the picture. There will be a cable going into the transmission below where the levers are, this is the shift cable. Yours will only have one lever, which will be the kickdown or throttle pressure lever. Tie it rearward and go for a test drive, see if then issue has changed.

There are modern replacement cables as mentioned, I think Lokar is the one of choice.

Good luck.

 

[rick1062]

AJ is correct that it can be tied back, but it will act strange because the trans will think you are a wide open throttle all the time.
It won't hurt the trans, but it wont shift until the RPM's are pretty high and then when it does shift it will be a hard shift.
As long as you know it going to do this, it can be tested and driven this way.
You can tie it back 2/3 of the way also, and it will shift a little more normal but then it shouldn't be driven with more than about 2/3 throttle. (see the relationship there?)
Obviously it should be hooked up when you can get it done.

If the fluid still looks nice and bright red, it may be just fine and runnable.
Since you are missing those parts, you may consider a Lokar cable setup instead.
Or if we know exactly what your current setup is missing, there are people selling this stuff on here all the time.
You will need the parts specific to your combination. (Engine and carb type)

Ok guys, here is an update on my woe's with the missing trans TPL:

First of all, the fluid does still look the correct color of red and does not smell burnt. I did tie back the TPL at the trans and it did just as you described. Hard shift, but seemed to work ok. So, not it is tied back about 2/3 the way. I haven't been able to test drive it yet, as I had to remove the gas tank and clean it out (another casuality to the 5 years sitting).

I did take some pictures of the linkage setup I currnetly have, so... hoping some of you can help me with what I am missing. I have attached a few pics.

The car specifics are: 1965 Barracuda, 273 engine, Carter 2 barrell carb number on casting is 0-0612, 904 trans. If you need more info, please let me know. Also if you have any idea of where I might obtain the missing parts without breaking the bank, please let me know.

Thanks to all as usual,

Rick