Battery Switch questions or is it a ground issue

[cuda guy]

Hi all
Im Stumped Again
My battery has been draining when I turn the battery switch off. It is a Moroso switch the off side is wired to the frame as ground and the battery ground is to the on position. I have never wired this type of switch to ground only POS. Yesterday I was checking all the connections to the rear of the car when I put down the tester to check with the multimeter it touched the roll cage and lite up, the switch was turned off at the time. I started testing everything in the truck all the bolts were lighting up. I up hooked the switch and ran a direct ground and everything was ok normal.
I even ran a different power wire from the battery to front and still the same
What has me confused is that how is the power bypassing the ground and goin to my frame in the off position and than with a direct ground no issues,
I tried 2 different batteries all the same results,
Is the switch bad or is something else wrong.
Its a 68 Cuda has a 440 mildly modified ex race car
I rewired the car with a EZ wiring kit not so easy
It has an autometre dash insert
It has a proper engine ground
All the power wires seem ok and all the electrical seems to be working as it should

 

[Demonx2]

Just to clarify, if I understand what you are saying is the On-Off switch contacts function to join the battery neg to the vehicle ground and when the switch is in the Off position, that circuit is intended to be broken. Correct?

Also, you say a test light lights up when touching roll cage, grounds, etc. Was the hot side of the light connected to batt positive or ?? If it was, then this makes sense IF...

So IF my understanding is correct, the only thing I can think of that makes sense is could the switch input terminal itself be grounded to the switch chassis? Easy test: use your multimeter to check continuity of switch body/chassis to the batt negative post on the switch. If it's got continuity, there's your mysterious ground path allowing something downstream to drain the battery. Your secondary job would be to locate that drain and correct it.

 

[cuda guy]

Just to clarify, if I understand what you are saying is the On-Off switch contacts function to join the battery neg to the vehicle ground and when the switch is in the Off position, that circuit is intended to be broken. Correct?

Also, you say a test light lights up when touching roll cage, grounds, etc. Was the hot side of the light connected to batt positive or ?? If it was, then this makes sense IF...

So IF my understanding is correct, the only thing I can think of that makes sense is could the switch input terminal itself be grounded to the switch chassis? Easy test: use your multimeter to check continuity of switch body/chassis to the batt negative post on the switch. If it's got continuity, there's your mysterious ground path allowing something downstream to drain the battery. Your secondary job would be to locate that drain and correct it.

The positive line is connected to the battery and every in the car is off as it should be in the off position
When I hook up the tester to the ground and touch the frame or any bolt or floor I get a positive reading
When I switch to the on position I get no reading in the frame floor or bolts
When I bybass the on/off switch and run a direct ground from battery to frame I get no positive reading at all
the only time I get a positive reading is when the switch is in the off position

 

[MDchanic]

The positive line is connected to the battery and every in the car is off as it should be in the off position

So the Positive cable is constantly connected to the Positive battery post...

When I hook up the tester...

"Tester"? What do you mean by "tester"?
Do you mean a test light? A buzzer? Some kind of an electronic device with lights?
Or do you mean a meter? If so, is it a volt meter, an ammeter, a multimeter?
If it's a multimeter, is it digital or analogue? What range do you have it set to?

... to the ground and touch the frame or any bolt or floor...

The frame, most bolts, and the floor ARE all ground.
So you are saying when you touch one probe to ground and the other probe to... ground?... the "tester" indicates some sort of current flow?
Sounds like a bad tester.

... I get a positive reading

And a "positive reading" means what, exactly?
A certain amount of measured current flow?
A certain difference in voltage?
A light that lights up?

When I switch to the on position I get no reading in the frame floor or bolts

"Reading in the frame or bolts" to WHAT?

When I bybass the on/off switch and run a direct ground from battery to frame I get no positive reading at all

So you are saying that when the switch is off, there is a current flow, but when the switch is bypassed, there is no current flow?

Is there any way that you might be describing something in a way that is different from the way that everyone else is understanding it? Because what you seem to be saying makes no sense.

the only time I get a positive reading is when the switch is in the off position

Again, please tell us exactly what you mean.

– Eric

 

[cuda guy]

The positive line is connected to the battery and every in the car is off as it should be in the off position

So the Positive cable is constantly connected to the Positive battery post...

Yes the positive wire is connected

When I hook up the tester...

"Tester"? What do you mean by "tester"?
Do you mean a test light? A buzzer? Some kind of an electronic device with lights?
Or do you mean a meter? If so, is it a volt meter, an ammeter, a multimeter?
If it's a multimeter, is it digital or analogue? What range do you have it set to?

Test light hooked up to ground

... to the ground and touch the frame or any bolt or floor...

The frame, most bolts, and the floor ARE all ground.
So you are saying when you touch one probe to ground and the other probe to... ground?... the "tester" indicates some sort of current flow?
Sounds like a bad tester.

Yes
My test light is fine
when I used a test bulb and socket it lite up

... I get a positive reading

And a "positive reading" means what, exactly?
A certain amount of measured current flow?
A certain difference in voltage?
A light that lights up?

Same as the battery output 10.9 volts but it was red not green

When I switch to the on position I get no reading in the frame floor or bolts

"Reading in the frame or bolts" to WHAT?

The same test light reads no power

When I bybass the on/off switch and run a direct ground from battery to frame I get no positive reading at all

So you are saying that when the switch is off, there is a current flow, but when the switch is bypassed, there is no current flow?
Yes when the switch is off there is a power reading on the frame when the switch is on there is no power reading in the frame or when I bypass the switch and run a direct ground



Is there any way that you might be describing something in a way that is different from the way that everyone else is understanding it? Because what you seem to be saying makes no sense.
It makes no sense to me neither buts happening and IM stumped
I will try a new switch on Tuesday

the only time I get a positive reading is when the switch is in the off position

Again, please tell us exactly what you mean.
When the Bypass pas switch is in the OFF position I get a positive reading in and around my frame with my test light

 

[67Dart273]

1...Part number? of the switch?

2...Photos...?

3....How EXACTLY is it wired? In other words, the ground point for the main ground cable, and other end of the ground cable to one terminal of the switch. The 2nd terminal of the switch has a cable to the battery neg? AND IS THAT ALL? NO other wiring on the ground side?

4...What exactly is "draining?" In other words did you charge the battery, then measure voltage hours or days later and it was noticably down? Any chance the battery is defective? Do you have a load tester?

 

[MDchanic]

So the Positive cable is constantly connected to the Positive battery post...

Yes the positive wire is connected

Okay.

"Tester"? What do you mean by "tester"?
Do you mean a test light? A buzzer? Some kind of an electronic device with lights?
Or do you mean a meter? If so, is it a volt meter, an ammeter, a multimeter?
If it's a multimeter, is it digital or analogue? What range do you have it set to?

Test light hooked up to ground

Okay. So you have a test light with one lead connected to ground, and the other to whatever you're testing.

Since you said, "When I hook up the tester to the ground and touch the frame or any bolt or floor I get a positive reading," and since the frame, or any bolt, or the floor, are all ground, where, exactly, are you connecting the "ground" lead of the test lamp to?

The frame, most bolts, and the floor ARE all ground.
So you are saying when you touch one probe to ground and the other probe to... ground?... the "tester" indicates some sort of current flow?
Sounds like a bad tester.

Yes
My test light is fine
when I used a test bulb and socket it lite up

So you have tested your test light by connecting one lead to +12v and the other lead to –12v, and the lamp lights up.

And a "positive reading" means what, exactly?
A certain amount of measured current flow?
A certain difference in voltage?
A light that lights up?

Same as the battery output 10.9 volts but it was red not green

What?

You said you had a test lamp, and that you tested it by connecting it to 12v and it lit up.
Now you're talking about red and green.
What, exactly are you talking about?
Do you, or do you not, have a test lamp? Or do you have something else?
And how do you know that your battery is providing 10.9v? A test lamp cannot measure voltage, at least not objectively.

And if your battery is producing 10.9v, it's dead, probably a bad cell.

"Reading in the frame or bolts" to WHAT?

The same test light reads no power

So your test light doesn't light up under those conditions.

So you are saying that when the switch is off, there is a current flow, but when the switch is bypassed, there is no current flow?
Yes when the switch is off there is a power reading on the frame when the switch is on there is no power reading in the frame or when I bypass the switch and run a direct ground

Again, "a power reading on the frame" is a meaningless phrase.
You need to specify exactly where you have the two test leads connected.

Is there any way that you might be describing something in a way that is different from the way that everyone else is understanding it? Because what you seem to be saying makes no sense.
It makes no sense to me neither buts happening and IM stumped
I will try a new switch on Tuesday

Throwing parts at a problem is not the best way to fix it.

Again, please tell us exactly what you mean.
When the Bypass pas switch is in the OFF position I get a positive reading in and around my frame with my test light

I think I'm done playing Twenty Questions with you.

If you can provide even a small piece of specific, concrete information, I will respond, otherwise, I will leave it to those more patient than I.

Good luck!

– Eric

 

[Demonx2]

Hmmm....I'm going to have to think about this one and follow along. Like @MDchanic , I want to help as I find these electrical issues fun to troubleshoot (yep, I'm an engineer!). But the internet makes things lots harder to communicate so we're a bit balled up trying to understand what you have.

My understanding is with the switch in the On position, life is good and you have no 12v power to anything like the roll cage or chassis bolts. But when you turn the switch to Off, which opens up the negative side of the battery to chassis ground, now you are getting 12v applied somehow to your chassis. Sounds like some type of weird backfeed...but where? Let's see what some of these other fellas (or gals!) might have to offer for ideas. Collectively, someone on here will nail it!

 

[Bewy]

Draw & post a diagram of how the wires are connected. [ Not a photo, it will not show enough ]

 

[MDchanic]

Draw & post a diagram of how the wires are connected. [ Not a photo, it will not show enough ]

You're assuming the ability to draw an accurate diagram, and the ability to translate that drawing to a legible image here.

Yes, please post a diagram.

But please also post a photograph of the battery with its connections and the switch in question, AND a photo of the "test light" you are using, AND a photo of the test light connected in the manner you describe, which results in the "positive" reading.

– Eric

 

[Mike69cuda]

Some of the battery terminal switches don’t reliably disconnect the battery. It may still be connected when you think it isn’t. Remove a battery cable from the battery and see if the same thing happens.

I had a battery disconnect with a green knob. It wouldn’t always disconnect no matter how far you turned the knob.

 

[cuda guy]

Hmmm....I'm going to have to think about this one and follow along. Like @MDchanic , I want to help as I find these electrical issues fun to troubleshoot (yep, I'm an engineer!). But the internet makes things lots harder to communicate so we're a bit balled up trying to understand what you have.

My understanding is with the switch in the On position, life is good and you have no 12v power to anything like the roll cage or chassis bolts. But when you turn the switch to Off, which opens up the negative side of the battery to chassis ground, now you are getting 12v applied somehow to your chassis. Sounds like some type of weird backfeed...but where? Let's see what some of these other fellas (or gals!) might have to offer for ideas. Collectively, someone on here will nail it!

Yes
this is my issue