BB stroker 6bbl dyno saga………thoughts??
- Thread starter PRH
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I did one of these last winter on the dyno on a 440. It ran good when done and made a little more but nearly the same as a 750 ultra hp single carb.
PRH
Well-Known Member
At the end they say it’s a 493 with TF270’s, I don’t recall if there was any cam info.
When you have the electronics delaying the distributor pick up trigger to manipulate the timing, it can put rotor to terminal phasing off pretty far.
When you have the electronics delaying the distributor pick up trigger to manipulate the timing, it can put rotor to terminal phasing off pretty far.
It made 541 tq @ 3800 451hp @4900 using J607Hang on...i have been around the internet.. if it's a 440 it has to do at least 500hp.. if not 600.... every old guy i know makes "around 500"
They never said which direction the phasing needed correction, which is still 'suspect' in My mind, but if the dizzy needed locked at say 10°BTDC(per Fitech)and the rotor needed moved an addtl. 8° to an advanced/retarded position.......I don't see why the entire spark curve couldn't have been shifted that 8° +/-, but then an outsider (like Nick) that may get this thing unaware of the deviation from the std. lock-out, & be confused making things worse trying to 'make it right'....
It almost sounds like they were reaching for any excuse, because they didn't know and needed a scapegoat. Like with the Hemi video. How many of us here would have KNOWN on the first try that the distributor was 180 degrees out? It was so evident it was pathetic, yet they just kept on grinding on the starter. Idiocy.
I see. That's average HP. I think 3500 to 5500 rpm.
I don't think it was 180 out until he put 180 out thinking that it needed to be 180 out because they misinterpreted the video from MSD explaining to rotate the shaft 180 when locking it down. My head hurts just typing that.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking that you can't modify the timing until after you get the signal from the pick up coil. Then you can only retard from there so the rotor is already past the terminal heading to the next cylinder. So the rotor would have to be related opposite the direction of rotation? There was multiple opportunities in that thought process to get things turned around but in the end I still have a 50/50 shot at getting it right.
Unless they use the cylinder before as reference for the next cylinder in which case it would need to be moved in the direction of rotation.
There, even if my logic is completely wrong I should have the answer covered both ways.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
K... so i was curious and just grabbed the directions...
5) In the handheld go to “Distr Base Timing”, this is the spark timing that the engine will be cranking at, and also represents
the minimum spark advance the system can allow. Strictly in the handheld change it to 10 degrees as a starting point.
6) Remove your distributor cap, but leave the spark plug wires attached. If the timing is set and the engine is in mechanically
sound condition mark the cap where the rotor is pointing to ensure the timing will be set after phasing it.
7) With a phaseable rotor, advance it about ¾ of the width of the brass tip. Use thread locking compound to keep the screw
tight – it will back out if you don't.
8) Put the engine at about 10 degrees BTDC, and move the distributor with the cap off to see that a tooth on the trigger lines
up with the pickup sensor.
It's right in the steps for setting up the ignition.. not optional.. not left out.. it's there in black and white with the procedure to do it.
P.S. i'm really bored at work... and the phone has rang once all day...
5) In the handheld go to “Distr Base Timing”, this is the spark timing that the engine will be cranking at, and also represents
the minimum spark advance the system can allow. Strictly in the handheld change it to 10 degrees as a starting point.
6) Remove your distributor cap, but leave the spark plug wires attached. If the timing is set and the engine is in mechanically
sound condition mark the cap where the rotor is pointing to ensure the timing will be set after phasing it.
7) With a phaseable rotor, advance it about ¾ of the width of the brass tip. Use thread locking compound to keep the screw
tight – it will back out if you don't.
8) Put the engine at about 10 degrees BTDC, and move the distributor with the cap off to see that a tooth on the trigger lines
up with the pickup sensor.
It's right in the steps for setting up the ignition.. not optional.. not left out.. it's there in black and white with the procedure to do it.
P.S. i'm really bored at work... and the phone has rang once all day...
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Well, all of these videos NOW are only for entertainment anyway. I liked Nick at first. But later on, you can sure tell he's doin what the writers and producers are tellin him. Caint blame him, really. I'm sure he'$ gettin paid.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
I used to watch him til is aw some stuff he does... then for awhile anything that's not OEM is ****.. then he went on a rant about how bad new cars are and i was out. I don't think he has any writers, just the camera guy as a partner or something... The fact they didn't read the directions then acted like it was all fitechs fault is hilarious though
Trust me. The show has writers.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
ohh come on.. how? He's a tottering old man babbling **** at a camera... if he has writers.. uncle tony has writers.... "NO NO! The script says a 14x10 cinder block for decking a block! Not a 12x8!"
Go to the part of the manual that talks about how to time it. It will tell you you don't have to allow the Fitec to control timing. I recommend if you aren't familiar with fitec to use that option first to get it running then change to fitec timing control if you desire.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
yeah, i skimmed it, i think it said if you aren't using a locked out dist then the normal advance would handle the phasing.. BTW.. those fitech directions are some of the clearest i have seen... the TF2 directions might as well be crayon on a napkin at this point
they look like the 300th xerox copyI've had days like that. EFI can be a ***** sometimes. I try to avoid FiTech systems when possible, they aren't very easy to work with. Holley at least lets you run a data log so you can review what is going on.
The engine sounded like the timing was way off. I've shown up at customer sites with the engine running like that. When the customer hangs all over you it is hard to think clear. Phasing the rotor doesn't usually solve anything but it can. I prefer to drill a hole in the distributor cap near #1 and shine the timing light in there. Then you can see if the rotor is pointed in the correct direction.
The engine sounded like the timing was way off. I've shown up at customer sites with the engine running like that. When the customer hangs all over you it is hard to think clear. Phasing the rotor doesn't usually solve anything but it can. I prefer to drill a hole in the distributor cap near #1 and shine the timing light in there. Then you can see if the rotor is pointed in the correct direction.
Well. After watching that video,I feel about about the piece of **** i revived earlier today that's been sitting for at least 8 years, and it's heavily heavily HEAVILY used and abused and had a miserable life.
rotor didn't even make it to the next plug wire and it lit right up with some sprinkles down the carb throat. I was hoping to be chasing the battery. I'm disappointed.
rotor didn't even make it to the next plug wire and it lit right up with some sprinkles down the carb throat. I was hoping to be chasing the battery. I'm disappointed.
The pcm is always altering the timing referenced to the preceeding cyl., if the target advance is 20° it will fire 70° after the preceeding pulse(V-8's), it can't 'get ahead' any other way. If You're using the system with a locked dizzy, You would map the entire curve advanced or retarded the amount of correction needed at the dizzy, it's that simple. It's not the right way to do it, but would work if the lack of parts/ability prevented re-phasing it correctly.
The program should have something like a "phase offset function" so you can get your phasing correct and numbers on the table to match the crankshaft degrees for cases where you can't use a msd distributor with adjustable rotor or don't want to use the distributor to control timing.
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