I have a 71 plymouth scamp with Small Bolt Pattern, and want to upgrade to the bigger (easier to find wheels for) bolt pattern while upgrading to discs. I want to spend as close to (or under) $1200 for the best bang. Aluminum or Iron, Single piston or 4, slotted or drilled, or plain. Just curious what some others have done and REAL prices. If it is a wheel only kit (what else is really needed to do the swap. BTW I have small upper ball joints and sourcing the upper control arms for a 73 & up used is out of the question. (been trying for about 3 years with no luck locally and I know I can just buy new ones for the price that some are asking for their junk). Any help would be appreciated, and I'm sure there are plenty of people wanting to get some feedback. I also intend on driving the car very often with a little track time so maybe this helps also.
Best Brakes for Buck
- Thread starter 71Sc@mp
- Start date
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dano
Evil Handy Man
DIY junk yard swap from 73-up will be cheapest. Do you have a you-pull-it yard, you can save there pulling your own.
What do you plan to do for the rear?
What do you plan to do for the rear?
69MOPE
Well-Known Member
73-up spindles
88 Diplomat police reman calipers and brake hoses
11.75" parts store rotors (plain)
11.75" adapters from Doctor Diff
Tubular upper arms (because of built in pos caster)
88 Diplomat police reman calipers and brake hoses
11.75" parts store rotors (plain)
11.75" adapters from Doctor Diff
Tubular upper arms (because of built in pos caster)
I will probably source the rear from a Jeep Liberty as some have the 8.25 rear and it appears to be a bolt on (with little modification for the parking brake). Any real world price figures? Numbers are helpfull. Thanks for the help so far, but like I said before no used 73 & up spindles around local that I can find.
69 Mope,good info.
Yup- 69 Mope has it. The last pair of 11.75" rotors, calipers, & adapters I pulled off a '75 Coronet coupe with the pin-style adapters. All of it was really new...no rust on the rotors, new bearings/seals, calipers painted grey w/the yellow inspection numbers, and brandy-new looking hoses. Out the door, taxes & before bringing back 'core' garbage, was just over $135.
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
The NEW factory knock off upper control arms from China are poor quality so you would be better off with quality used OEM arms or quality aftermarket tubular control arms. You can always buy the bushing kit from Dr. Diff (around $50) and use your current control arms.
Your upper control arms are a-body specific bit here is a list of other cars that you can gather disc brake parts off of.
Originally Posted by 72bluNblu
Yep, you can use any of the FMJ stuff too, including the spindles. They have slightly different geometry than the '73 up A body spindles, but not enough for most people to even notice. And the change in geometry actually improves the camber gain while cornering, so you can argue they're actually better than a body spindles. This is pretty nice, because a lot of wrecking yards still have FMJ clunkers in their yards, you can pull the spindles and brakes off of some of those models all the way up to '89.
You can also use the larger 11.75" FMJ rotors if you get the caliper brackets to go along with them, they use the same spindles, control arms, and even calipers as the regular '73 up 10.97" rotors do for an A-body. You do need to have 15" rims though, as 14" rims will hit the calipers.
Here's a list of all the Mopars that use the same 10.98" rotor. You can also pull spindles and calipers off of any of these cars. Some will have pin type calipers, but if you grab everything from the spindle out you'll get the right caliper brackets. Some of them also had the 11.75" rotors from '76 to '81.
CHRYSLER CORDOBA (1975 - 1983)
CHRYSLER FIFTH AVENUE (1983 - 1989)
CHRYSLER IMPERIAL (1981 - 1983)
CHRYSLER LEBARON (1977 - 1981)
CHRYSLER NEW YORKER 1982
CHRYSLER TOWN & COUNTRY (1978 - 1981)
DODGE ASPEN (1976 - 1980)
DODGE CHALLENGER (1973 - 1974)
DODGE CHARGER (1973 - 1976)
DODGE CORONET (1973 - 1975)
DODGE DART (1973 - 1976)
DODGE DIPLOMAT (1977 - 1989)
DODGE MIRADA (1980 - 1983)
PLYMOUTH BARRACUDA (1973 - 1974)
PLYMOUTH CARAVELLE (1978 - 1985)
PLYMOUTH CUDA (1973 - 1974)
PLYMOUTH DUSTER (1973 - 1976)
PLYMOUTH FURY 1975
PLYMOUTH GRAN FURY (1982 - 1989)
PLYMOUTH SATELLITE (1973 - 1974)
PLYMOUTH SCAMP (1973 - 1976)
PLYMOUTH VALIANT (1973 - 1976)
PLYMOUTH VOLARE (1976 - 1980)
Here is a Volare that just arrived at your local Pull-A-Part. Maybe the parts you need are still there. Looks like you can get the parts you need for around a $100.00.
Location Atlanta South
Make Model PLYMOUTH VOLARE
Year 1978
Date On Yard 06/07/2013
Row 83
Pricing...
http://www.pullapart.com/parts/pricing.aspx?letter=&loc=3&#pricelist
Are these conversions ok for daily driving and some hard use? Or would it be better to go for a set of wilwood or SSBC conversion using the same factory Upper Control arm and spindle. I do have the 10" drums in the front. Just asking, because the last thing I want is for some body to slam on thier brakes in front of me and ruin my "new" scamp because 30-40 year old brake parts failed, or the design wasn't up to par. I don't mind spending $1200 or even a little over for the front, just want to know what is better. Thanks.
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
Absolutely nothing wrong with the OEM set up. Just use the calipers as cores for remanufactured ones, buy new pads and hoses. If the rotors are junk you would have to buy those.
Here is the advantage of OEM. You can walk in to any parts house and buy the wearable parts. You can also go to a much larger disc if you get them off the right car and run at least 15" wheels.
I run the 11.75" OEM mopar set up on my Challenger with 11x2.5" rear drums. It stops very well, especially considering it weighs at least a few hundred pounds more than your Scamp. The SSBC conversion isn't anything crazy for braking power, its pretty much an OEM set up also. Between that and just getting a set of 73+ mopar spindles and running 11.75" rotors and brackets I'd run the mopar stuff all day long. If you're hell bent on spending a ton of money,Wilwood and Baer have even bigger rotors and better calipers available that will really get you stopped in a hurry. Keep in mind though that if you go much bigger than ~11.75" diameter rotors you'll need bigger than 15" rims too.
Also keep in mind that a BIG part of your braking ability is your TIRES. Skinny little hockey puck rubber BFG T/A's up front will not help your cause here, if you want to stop fast you need traction. After all, once your brakes can lock up your wheels you don't need much more braking power to stop faster, you need more traction to boost your stopping power. Big brakes need to be paired up with bigger, better tires to really be effective.
With the 275/40/17's, 11.75" rotors and stock calipers I have on my Challenger I can practically plant the nose of the car in the asphalt if I lay into the brakes. Its pretty impressive for OEM parts on a big old E-body.
younggun2.0
Well-Known Member
I have the 11.75" rotors on my dart. i had a set of the factory calipers on at first and then swapped them out for the fancy 4 piston wilwood calipers. i think the factory single piston actually stopped better.
Sounds like the consensus is oem stuff. I just figured people who specailize in brakes could make something better, thats all. If the Oem stuff works better and cost less (or even close to the same with buying tubular uppers) then why go aftermarket anyway? By the way, CPP online has the disc conversion for pretty cheap. It actually is cheaper than sourcing from the local parts store since it includes lower ball joints and all the hardware, and I would be replacing the lower ball joints anyways. All I have to do is buy the uppers and I could go the tubular route and still come out around 1K or less. I have factory manual drums. Should I upgrade to power? Mild 318 so no shortage of vacuum.
swinger340
Well-Known Member
I vote 73 up OEM set up. Readily available for parts and cheap. 2 of my cars have them and stop just fine
BobbyY
Old Mopar guy
71S@mp, who is CPP online, do you have a link.
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
I am not familiar with CPP. Just remember if you buy China junk you will be doing it again. If you can source made in USA parts you will be further ahead instead of having to redo it over. Ask me how I know?
I wouldn't. I have power on my Challenger, and manual on my Duster (both have 11.75" disks). They both stop great, but I think the manual disks give better feedback for braking. Takes a little bit more effort, but not enough to be a problem. The power brakes always feel kind of soft, kind of like the overboosted power steering. Just not a lot of "feel" to them, even though they stop the car wonderfully.
FMJ spindles out and a set of Dr Diff ball joint adapters (~$50).
I don't bother with the 11.75 stuff on a daily driver, run the stock stuff whatever you find.
I don't bother with the 11.75 stuff on a daily driver, run the stock stuff whatever you find.
Exactly! :thumbup:
You can usually pick up those spindles for under $100 at the local yard, and the adapters only cost $50 from Dr. Diff.
Gonna have to disagree here.
The 11.75" rotors are a HUGE improvement over stock. All of the cars I've swapped and driven so far have been from the stock 10.98" rotors to 11.75", and it is a noticeable difference. Based simply on the radius of the disk, the increase in braking force is at the rotor is about 8% vs. the stock rotors. And then there's the fact that the 11.75" rotors, even using the stock calipers, have a larger braking surface (because of the larger swept out area). That means it will take longer to heat them up, and that you have more surface area to cool them down. There's a reason the bigger, heavier later cars used 11.75" rotors -they work better.
And since the rotors cost pretty much the same, and you use the same calipers, the only real cost above and beyond the 10.98" set up is $100 for the caliper brackets. I suppose if you really want to get technical you need 15" rims to run the 11.75" rotors too, so that could be an extra cost if you have 14's and were planning on keeping them. But I can't imagine wanting to keep the 14's on a driver anyway (no good tires whatsoever). Maybe for a restoration car, but then you wouldn't be switching to disks anyway.
For $100, a 8% increase in braking force is pretty darn good. And if its really a driver, you may need the those extra few feet. I know I've been in a couple of situations in the last 40k miles with my Challenger where a couple of feet might have meant replacing some sheet metal. People drive stupid.
I use stock 4 piston calipers with 15" sbp rallye wheels . Car stops as well or better than all my other cars , Acura , Jaguar , and Pathfinder . Of course with better tires might do better , but I usually stay within speed limits on the road , even at the end of the 1/4 mile traveling over 115 mph have no problems coming to a quick stop . And it's a short track , anything under 10 sec and it's 1/8 mile racing only , not enough runoff for them in the 1/4 mile .
I don't know what kind of racing you do , but for the street the OEM setups are fine .
Forgot to add type car , 1970 340
I don't know what kind of racing you do , but for the street the OEM setups are fine .
Forgot to add type car , 1970 340
http://www.classicperform.com/NewProducts/MoparBrakeKits/Mopar_Brake_Kits.htm
You can check the above link for CPP online's mopar products. The kit for the upper control arms is what includes the lower ball joints, so I appologize for any confusion. It may be a little cheaper to source the spindle and caliper brackets used reviewing the link. I kind of just like the idea of having everything I need the first time with no hicups when installing brakes. I appreciate all of the feedback as I am sure that it is helping more than me. I plan on doing a few 1/4 mile runs and possibly a little autocross if given the opportunity even though that is not what my car is being built for. I do have pretty wide bfgs on the front as well, and I think with the 4 wheel conversion, it should stop a little better too. At $1k for the tubular arms and full power disk setup, or $800 for the "at the wheel" setup i think this is great.(plus shipping of course). I will likely get mine through Year One as they use CPP as a supplier and also can get these brake sets, since Year One is so close to my house I can drive there rather than have the parts shipped, and I LOVE Year One's return policy, so no worrys about damages occured through mailing. Any one ever use this kit?
You can check the above link for CPP online's mopar products. The kit for the upper control arms is what includes the lower ball joints, so I appologize for any confusion. It may be a little cheaper to source the spindle and caliper brackets used reviewing the link. I kind of just like the idea of having everything I need the first time with no hicups when installing brakes. I appreciate all of the feedback as I am sure that it is helping more than me. I plan on doing a few 1/4 mile runs and possibly a little autocross if given the opportunity even though that is not what my car is being built for. I do have pretty wide bfgs on the front as well, and I think with the 4 wheel conversion, it should stop a little better too. At $1k for the tubular arms and full power disk setup, or $800 for the "at the wheel" setup i think this is great.(plus shipping of course). I will likely get mine through Year One as they use CPP as a supplier and also can get these brake sets, since Year One is so close to my house I can drive there rather than have the parts shipped, and I LOVE Year One's return policy, so no worrys about damages occured through mailing. Any one ever use this kit?
Any concerns with running the Dr. Diff upper ball joint adapters? This is ok to run every day and some track time, or is this something like wheel adapters that really shouldn't be ran hard due to risk. $50 is cheap and though tubular uppers are %100 in the future, I think my stockers (that I just had poly bushings installed in) could be used for now pending that this is safe.
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
I am not a fan of China made castings just from the crappy quality upper control arms, ball joints and tie rod ends I have seen but at least when you need replacement parts they will be something you can get locally according to their website. I would much rather have quality used OEM American made parts.
If YearOne doesn't have them in stock then you might want to pick them from Summit Racing in McDonough, GA since they carry them also. I have never heard any complaints about Dr Diff's parts but I have no knowledge about them first hand.
If YearOne doesn't have them in stock then you might want to pick them from Summit Racing in McDonough, GA since they carry them also. I have never heard any complaints about Dr Diff's parts but I have no knowledge about them first hand.
Ok, so what about Dr. Diff ball joint adapters, and the spindles and hardware from a volare/aspen. Probably new calipers and rotors and of course pads for the aforementioned spindles. 11.75 adapters if I can't source these used, and then the rear set up from a liberty or cherokee with a 8.25 rear. I should also get an adjustable proportioning valve and this should be ok right? I may save the 11.75 rotors and adapters for later so I can run the 14" slots and brand new BFGs for right now.
Oklacarcollecto
Life is an experiment
I am pretty picky about what I would run and I would use Dr. Diffs adapters.
A Jeep rear end has to be modified to use in your A-body. 8 1/4 A-body rear ends are around and can normally be had for less that what it would cost to modify a Jeep rear end. The last one I bought cost me $150 backing plate to backing plate with axles.
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