Body Work Expertise Needed

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MoparGirl

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Okay you body guys & gals, I'm in need of some advice on the body work, primer & paint for my Dart. I started this project taking the car down to bare metal, then cleaning with degreaser/body parts cleaner, then applying just rattle can primer (not sealer) to the car. That didn't work out at all because after a little while (couple of weeks) rust started popping through the primer in several areas. I heard about rust converter that could be applied to bare metal and so I bought some of that to try out on the next pieces I stripped (hood & deck lid.) That didn't work out at all - went on very uneaven and left rust residue in several places. I visited the local NAPA to get some TRIO Etch Primer Sealer based on some input on another post, spent $115 for Twin Etch (they didn't have TRIO,) a product called CS279 Enamel Primer/Sealer, and the reducer required. This was supposed to solve all my problems according to the NAPA guy. I would use the Twin Etch over bare metal, rinse with water, & spray the CS279 on top, then I could address areas needing putty & filler later.

I sprayed the deck lid with the new stuff, then contacted Martin Senour direct because it just didn't look right. It's nice and shiny and really looks cool, but it doesn't look at all like a primed piece and I was concerned about the body filler adhering to it.

The rep at Martin Senour gave me totally different recommendations, told me to take back the CS 279 & reducer and get my money back (which I can't because it's all opened now.) Here's what the rep's suggestions are. If there's anyone out there that can confirm (or reject) this advice, I'd really appreciate it. I am hesitant to go back to NAPA and drop another $100-$200 on stuff that turns out not being correct. I'm also getting tired of stripping & having to redo parts again and again.

TWIN Etch, then Tec Supreme Body Filler, then TP530 Tec/Prime, then TRIO Prime Etching Primer, then basecoat & clear coats.

Thanks!

Pam
 
OK I'll bite. First off I think you have the order of products a little bit out of order. TRIO prime is a self etching primer that is designed to eliminate the metal conditioning step that the Twin Etch is supposed to do. You don't need to do both and you definitely don't want to put it over Tec prime, TRIO goes directly onto metal. If you want some advice, don't use either, but sand down to bare metal, and then use a good epoxy primer. You can put body filler directly over epoxy primer, then use a good 2K primer. Block, block block. Finish up with at least 320 grit I usually do 400 or better. I use a transparent sealer, then basecoat(s), then 2-3 coats of clear depending on the clear. Then comes my impersonation of Jimmy Buffet (Buff-it) starting with 1000-1200 color sanding then lots of quality time with a foam pad and compound.
 
Ok I'll try and help you, first of all you cannot put any kind of body filler on a self-etching primer, DON'T DO IT, do the bodywork on the bare metal if at all possible, if the car is sanded to bare metal, it is the best first primer you can use, it is very thin and you will see thru it in most cases, make sure your metal is clean, it usaully mixes 1 to 1 with hardner, if the hardner is not in a plastic jug it's not self-etching primer, the hardner is phosporic acid and bites in and becomes part of the metal, hence the plastic jug, it's the best corrosion protection you can get, then you can go to a catalized primer filler usually called 2K primer or I suppose an epoxy primer would work as well I prefer 2K primer filler (3 coats) uaually because it fills so well and this where the sanding & blocking begins use 220 grit on a long sanding block, any small dents or imperfections you find after blocking can be filled after blocking with a polyester filler, these fillers sand very easily but normally aren't used for heavy filling, once you've got all the blocking done and the imperfections done, prime the vehicle again, and block it again, with 320 grit dry or maybe 400 wet or dry paper, using it on a block with water, at this point the body shpuld look pretty good and be very smooth, with today's base/clears I will usually block the car one more time wet with 500 or 600 grit, then it's ready for the topcoat, I don't normally seal them at this point because I've sanded it so smooth and a catalized primer doesn't really need a sealer, anyway that's how I do it and it comes from many years of experience as well as being a factory rep and instructor for a paint comany for many years, hope this helps
 
Thanks to both of you for your input. You've probably saved me both cost and aggravation.

Pam
 
wow, rednesss and barrows replies, with small difference (sealer) are almost identical! i'd like to offer my thanks too. very good info
-pauly
 
there replies are totally different...the first guy is doing all his bodywork overtop of epoxy..the second over bare metal
 
well after reading all of the above,,,, I thank all of you for your info,,,

racy
 
Well there are two camps when it comes to body filler. Some body guys will only put body filler (I use Rage) onto bare metal. Some will tell you that because body filler absorbs water that that is not a good thing to have right on top of bare metal (promotes rust) and most good epoxy primers will tell you in their tech sheets that you can put body filler over the top of them with no difference in adhesion properties vs. bare metal. Some people say potato some say pahtato. Who knows, go with what you are comfortable with.
 
i like the epoxy primer first and body filler over that, unless you use a waterproof body filler? I've heard these exsist And if you both agree on the epoxy primer first then that'll be my course when I reach that point.

racy
 
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