Building a 410 stroker and need some advice

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brewil

brewil

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Hi,

I'm building a street engine for my 1972 Valiant Charger. Here's the list.
LA block

Valvetrain:
Rhoads Vmax flat tappet lifters
Hughes Engines Hyd Flat tappet cam 232/237 and 540 lift
Hughes Engines double valve springs
Comp Cams Stainless magnum rockers
not sure about pushrods yet

Stroker kit with cast crank, i-beam rods and JE or Diamond forged pistons
Heavily ported J heads (if I can still get hold of them-were used for drag racing a couple of times)

ATI or TCI Rattler balancer
March Serpentine pulley kit

Kevko Sportsman oil pan with pickup

Edelbrock Air gap manifold

ICE ignition system - best around

Gas Research LPG/Propane Carb

Engine will be around 11:1 compression

All this will be bolted to a Performance Automatic 727

My questions are to do with the lifters, Hughes cam and transmission
Are the Rhoads lifters a good deal and how good are the Hughes cams?
What are your views on the Perfomance Automatic trannies?

All help would be appreciated
Thanks
 
I'll say more cam 250*-260*@.050,
950 cfm carb &
You need to enlarge the ports a bit while not killing the low lift flow / velocity
then
Go solid cam and 1.6 or solid roller all together.JMO
 
I am looking for good low to mid range torque. 1500-5500rpm.
Is a cam at 250 is more high end?
I'm looking at flat tappet due to price as I have a lot to do to the car.
 
Looks pretty good to me except you might be pushing it with the 11:1 w/iron heads.
 
brewil said:
Hi,

I'm building a street engine for my 1972 Valiant Charger. Here's the list.
LA block

Valvetrain:
Rhoads Vmax flat tappet lifters
Hughes Engines Hyd Flat tappet cam 232/237 and 540 lift
Hughes Engines double valve springs
Comp Cams Stainless magnum rockers
not sure about pushrods yet

Stroker kit with cast crank, i-beam rods and JE or Diamond forged pistons
Heavily ported J heads (if I can still get hold of them-were used for drag racing a couple of times)

ATI or TCI Rattler balancer
March Serpentine pulley kit

Kevko Sportsman oil pan with pickup

Edelbrock Air gap manifold

ICE ignition system - best around

Gas Research LPG/Propane Carb

Engine will be around 11:1 compression

All this will be bolted to a Performance Automatic 727

My questions are to do with the lifters, Hughes cam and transmission
Are the Rhoads lifters a good deal and how good are the Hughes cams?
What are your views on the Perfomance Automatic trannies?

All help would be appreciated
Thanks
Click to expand...

Sent you a PM................
 
Brewil,
11:1 is pushing it with iron heads and if you are going down the porting road go with some Eddys and have Shaddy Dell do the work. As far as the rest please consider comp cams XE285HL (adv 285/297) and with a set of 1.6/1 rockers will give you .581 lift. You need good breathing to take advantage of the stroker set up. Just my .02
Andrew
 
11 is pushing it, but i run 11.25cr with J's 205 psi cranking psi, it runs super strong put as much cr as you think you can get away with!
 
I would suggest that a flat top piston be used. (In a 360, it would be a 107.)
I forget what it would be for the stroker. But it will reduce the ratio to a pump gas level while retain enough compresion to run a heavy street cam.
Keep the piston in the block. The highest you want it would be at zero deck. Slightly below would be better since the extra stroke will induce more squeeze. (A high ratio.)

The cam your looking at is on the smallish side, being made smaller in a way due to the now bigger displacement of the engine size.

My questions are to do with the lifters, Hughes cam and transmission
Are the Rhoads lifters a good deal and how good are the Hughes cams?
What are your views on the Perfomance Automatic trannies?
Click to expand...

I have used Rhodes lifters before and know a few people that have, but not those exact units your looking at. The variable lifter really isn't needed with your combo at all. The extra stroke of the engine is going to make mad crazy torqe along with the smallish cam.

(Strokers/big cube engines use more cam than a smaller engine. OR they eat up cam duration so you need to use a larger cam for the same performance target.)

Huges has there cams ground by someone. I forget who. There cams have agressive lift rates and high lifts in an attempt to maximize the valve train movement for the best possible air and fuel charge into the engine without going to a race style cam, which is more aggresive in it's valve action.

Like everyone else out there, huges gets cheers and jeers. There very much like every other aftermarket manufacturer in theres very happy people with no issues and unhappy people with issues. No one is exempt from problems with the stuff.

I have never heard of " Perfomance Automatic trannies"
 
Also remember people that gas has a higher rating of octane than
petrol....

So i think 11.1 comp will be more than fine.

My mechanics 360 has iron heads an runs 11.3.1 fine on pump fuel.
Remember were in aus haha.
 
What is your performance target??...my 416 uses a .533/.552 hyd. cam and pumped out 520 h.p. 500 lbs tq. running 11.0's..
 
nemesis said:
Also remember people that gas has a higher rating of octane than
petrol....

So i think 11.1 comp will be more than fine.

My mechanics 360 has iron heads an runs 11.3.1 fine on pump fuel.
Remember were in aus haha.
Click to expand...

When it comes to octane ratings between the United States and down under, what's the differences? How does our 93 octane stack up next to yours or what is the equal?
 
Im sorry,
I just now noticed you will be running on propane!
My expertise is on octane based fuels
I have no idea what propane requires or will put up with in the way of compression in relation to octane numbers.
Andrew
 
blue missile said:
Im sorry,
I just now noticed you will be running on propane!
My expertise is on octane based fuels
I have no idea what propane requires or will put up with in the way of compression in relation to octane numbers.
Andrew
Click to expand...

Propane's octane rating is ~105...
 
OH BOY! I'm so glad you reminded me he said Propane. I did read that but my mind went back to automatic mode and entered gasoline!

Duh! Rumble DUH! :sign10:
 
OK,
if thats the case @ 105 real, you can run 11:1 Dynamic Compression Ratio The requirement at that ratio is 104 octane.
So 11:1 static should be no problem.
Andrew
 
rumblefish360 said:
When it comes to octane ratings between the United States and down under, what's the differences? How does our 93 octane stack up next to yours or what is the equal?
Click to expand...

I dont know,our octane rating is measured in RON.
Dont know what yours is measured in,pretty sure its
called something else.
But ive had this conversation a few times...
Regarding whos petrol is better.

The best you can get here at the pump is 98 octane.

What i like seeing is how far new motors are advancing
an the technologies there using so your average fuel
can still power high comp engines,due to variable ignition timing,
knock sensors etc.
Take for instance, the new bmw M5 makes 500 horsepower
with a 5 litre v10..
Compression is 12.1
thats right,12.1!

Yet it will run all day everyday on premium fuel with no
problems...

Im thinking your petrol is better.
Well id like to think yours!
America!
LAnd of opportunity!
So they say.

But seriously i love where i live in aus,an would never leave :cheers:

My bad for the rant.
Just thought id like share that info for those that didnt
know.
 
For the US members -

What you call Propane, we call LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) or "gas" for short -

We also refer to NOS as being "on the gas" so it can get confusing.

As Nemesis said - our fuel rating is RON - yours is NON.

From what I can gather - your 88(?) rating is the same roughly as our 92 - but happy to be corrected on that.

I also don't believe we have anything "from the pump" thats = to your 'premium'.

Basically, for our country which is in theory 99% self sufficient in petroleum, we get CRAP fuel!

Aussies - Brewil - Theres a guy on one of the aussie forums who's aiming for 13:1 on LPG so 11s shouldn't be an issue.

One last tip - Use "autogas" or buy it from country regions, they get pure Propane deliveries because the Gas companies don't want to pay for two seperate delivery runs (1 for household, 1 for gas stations). In the city, the gas stations get the rubbish cut down LPG.
 
No way i didn't know that about the gas! Thanks for the advice Moparmal. Have you still got the silver Charger? Mine is unfortunately sitting outside in red oxide and gutted under a car cover on the street. That's Bondi for you! Luckily there was minimal rust.
What's your 2c on front ends for our Vals ie. rack and pinion? ( I know we can't get the US tubular arms past engineering inspection here).
 
Strokers like A LOT of cam. Consider what you would put in a big block for that torque range. That 410 has a quarter inch more stroke than a 440. Most people forget to look at that when they build them.
 
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